The Glade 4.0

I would have called, and followed until 911 told me that cops were on the way. After that, I would have gone home. But then, I probably wouldn't have been following in the first place. I'm not a confrontational person.

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Holy shitsnacks!

My understanding is that is GZ's assertion (granted it's just that) that he stopped following when 911 told him and then was confronted by Martin after.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Well, see, that's the thing. He's neighborhood watch so it is his business. Also, a 911 dispatcher telling you what to do means jack and ****.

Neighborhood watch ≠ police. Hell, they're not even rent a cops.

Observe, and report. Do not engage if you don't want your *** beat.

GZ was probably looking for a confrontation as a vigilante *******. Doesn't mean it was murder if he was attacked, but people that are looking for a fight will generally be given one.

And yeah, the 911 dispatcher telling you something means nothing. I get that, however, Once police are on the way, GZ's "job" was complete.

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Holy shitsnacks!

It's his business, and he's within his rights to follow someone, but a neighborhood watch is just a semi-organization of citizens that agree to do things that they are entitled to do and that they view as socially responsible. If he weren't in the neighborhood watch he would be on the same legal footing he is now.

As for the dispatcher, legally speaking, you're right. He was under no legal obligation to acede to the dispatcher's request. However, it was still good advice, and from a standpoint of what would have been the wiser course of action, it meant a lot more than jack and ****.

@Mus



We don't have any substantial reason to think GZ was looking for a fight. People that want to get in a fight usually don't alert the cops first.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's a fair assessment. He's still kind of a self appointed vigilante ******* though.

Not a murderer, but definitely an *******.

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Holy shitsnacks!

No. What you do is not my business, what I do is not your business.

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If someone walks down the street in front of my house, it certainly IS my business to watch them if I so choose. People have this strange idea that when in public they are immune from the scrutiny of other citizens. As long as those other people don't interfere with or threaten you, they can in fact observe whatever they want.

The sticky issue is at what point does observation go so far as to reflect an imminent threat?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Fortunately for us All, Asshatery is not a felony at this time.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

You just said "observe, and report". You previously said (to which and to Hopwin's statement my response is directed) "Dude shouldn't have been following the other dude."

You cannot observe without following.

A group of concerned citizens all got together and decided Zimmerman should keep an eye out for suspicious activity in the area in which they live. Do I not have the right to ask someone to watch my house? Zimmerman agreed, and therefore it's his business.

@both of you

No, you have absolutely no right to know anything about me or my activities. You can watch me but to DE's point once you start following me then lines are being toes/crossed.

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So, if I'm directed to watch every house on the street, I can observe you only outside one of the houses, and have to wait until you get out of my vision before I can go back to observing what's going on around the other houses?

It's been well established that you have no right to privacy in public.

Directed by whom? A neighborhood block association? If they gave you direction to kill, detain or assault others on their behalf do you think that legally entitles you to do so?

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Merely following you doesn't cross a line; people can follow each other entirely by accident. Just because you perceive that I'm following you doesn't mean any line is crossed; I might simply be going in the same direction.

Furthermore, people do in fact have a right to know anything about you that they can determine from observing you, when they are in a place that they have the right to be. They even have the right to approach you and demand you account for yourself. If you refuse, that's your right, but as long as you are in public anything you do is anyone's business to the degree they can observe you without interfering with you, and wish to do so.



Anyone whom the person has agreed to take direction from. what's that got to do with anything?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Go read my edit DE

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What you said in your edit is true, but not what we are talking about. The simple fact is that if you are in public, other people are entitled to observe your activities if they so wish. You don't get to decide that you walking down someone's street is not their business.

Suppose that someone saw you actually breaking into a house. Is that also not their business?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

"Demand" is rather strong in the context of a rights debate. Perhaps, "request"?

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By demand, I meant "request in a brusque or impolite fashion", not "order" or something like that. I was referring tot he fact that lack of politeness would still not make it illegal to do so.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Fair enough. I think Zimmerman is already done, by and large because there is no way to avoid a tainted trial. That said, the prosecution apparently got their counsel from the same place as Michael Bloom (see Arrested Development). Some of this testimony is comedic in rather ... astonishing ways.

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This trial reminds me of the OJ trial in many ways...(i.e. it's a complete farce)

Bluth.

And Barry Zuckercorn could lawyer rings around this prosecution.

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Holy shitsnacks!

So in other words my business is none of theirs despite their inner belief that it is?


It is not. That is the police's business as you well know officer

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I should point out a couple things for the record:

1) It's alleged that Zimmerman started the neighborhood watch, and is therefore pretty much "self appointed."

2) Zimmerman's neighborhood was a gated community, implying no common right of ingress.

3) Given the alleged neighborhood watchy-ness and item (2) above, Zimmerman most certainly would have a legal, and moral interest in following people he thought suspicious.

4) The 911 dispatcher did NOT explicitly state to stop following Martin. They said, quote: "Ok, we don't need you to do that." Not "stop doing that." Or "don't follow him." Just, "we don't need you to."

5) Recent break-ins in the neighborhood had gone unsolved.

6) Given (4) and (5) above, it would STILL be reasonable to Zimmerman to follow Martin.

and finally:

7) It's my understanding that Zimmerman's account of the events is that he DID stop following Martin at or about the time the 911 operated told him "Ok, we don't need you to do that." And that Martin then assaulted him.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

In other words, even though you are not obligated to tell them anything about your business, they can determine your business through normal observation.



Citizens in Ohio may make arrests for felonies. The police also rely on citizen reports in order to become aware of most crimes. In either situation, someone breaking into an occupied structure is the business of any citizen who decides to intervene.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."