So as evidenced by my above post, I chose today (for no reason whatsoever) to head on back to RobertsSpaceIndustries.com to see what I have been missing over the months (Hadn't checked up in quite a while).
I inquired here about the citizen cards and got a response from Kaffis, so I decided to send in a request through the website.
I get home and pull the mail out of my mailbox and out falls a pretty banged up resealed envelope with Chinese text on it addressed from Cloud Imperium games...My citizen card.
I love coincidences.
Also, I find it amusing that my long time chosen handle "Hitman" and my pledge level "Bounty Hunter" have nothing to do with my likely eventual playstyle ingame.
_________________ This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.
Reposting the roster for the new page, just in case we get any more interest this week around these parts.
"Void Rangers" - working title (Kaffis has the domain name, but needs to get off his *** and set a site up if we like it) Elm - 300i; Exploration, Light Trading, Combat Ulfynn - 300i; Explore, Combat, Mercenary/Bounty Hunting Kaffis1 - Freelancer, Starfarer, Hornet; Exploration, Trading, Escort, Overclocking Kaffis2 - M50, 315p, Caterpillar, Cutlass, Constellation, Idris-P; Smuggling, Bounty Hunting, Combat Support, Piracy? Foamy - 300i; Exploration, Trading Ranelagh - Hornet, Cutlass; Escort, pansy term meaning piracy Lonedar - Hornet, Freelancer; Combat, Explore, Salvage Aquila - Freelancer, M50; Smuggling & Racing/Scouting Juneau - 325a Halloween - 315p; Exploration, Escort, Mercenary Müs - 315p Darkroland - 315p Rorinthas
Yeah, Foamy -- the overseas trip from the China post wasn't particularly kind to the envelopes, lol. Both my cards were fine, though.
Darkroland, the way I figure it, the consumer Oculus Rift can't get here soon enough. Not that I want them to rush it, but it's painfully slow as I hear about them trying to settle in on the right display, etc. Fortunately, my will is strong enough to resist paying for it twice, as it were, so I'm safe from a Dev Kit order, even though I was expecting the Dev Kits to be a slightly less polished product than they turned out.
I'm really looking forward to today's CommLink. It should be a "Death of a Spaceman"-esque detailed outline of the economy by Chris that he said was coming this week. Given how soundly thought out and exhaustive Death of a Spaceman was, and how soundly it put to rest the vast majority of people's concerns, I can't wait.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
Last edited by Kaffis Mark V on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
They're doing their release in stages. They figure they're doing the work in stages anyways, so releasing interesting portions of it along the way is a good way to test hardware compatability, their distribution infrastructure, etc. before they get to the final beta stages and release.
The current targets are:
A "Hangar Module" in late August, timed to release while they do some cool reveals at Gamescom in Germany. Germans are apparently still nuts over Wing Commander -- think Korea and Blizzard. The Hangar Module will be a way for you to log into a game client and walk around a hangar with your pledge ships in it. You'll be able to see them up close, admire the detailed model work, and so on. Beneficially, this will give CIG the opportunity to test their download infrastructure, their login servers, and start collecting performance metrics for them to begin optimizing the graphics engine for their playerbase's diverse system configurations.
Following that, near the end of the year they plan to release a "Dogfighting Alpha." This will be a way for players to, again, log in and fly their pledge ships against other players (and hopefully NPCs, if the AI work is coming along well soon enough). There will be some rudimentary matchmaking, and it's billed as a way to start getting a feel for how flight works in Star Citizen/Squadron 42 as well as a platform to begin testing and tweaking combat balance and network code.
I don't remember if it's shortly before or after the Dogfighting Alpha, they plan to release a "Social Module" that will include some of the ground planetary locations that serve as social hubs, quest hubs, and shops and the like in the Persistent Universe.
Sometime next year, Squadron 42 (the single player military story campaign, Wing Commander style) will go into beta, with a targetted release to 1.0 for the holidays. Around that release, the Persistent Universe will be released as a beta product, with the final feature-complete launch sometime in 2015.
So, the answer is that unless something goes horribly wrong, we should be playing a multiplayer deathmatch style game this winter, helping to balance while we wait for the campaign and persistent elements to come online.
Darkroland wrote:
You left my name off the list again Kaffis, do I have to go through some sort of Void ranger hazing or something?
Had a brain lapse, wrote you down as Darksiege. Apologies, and edited. I blame the similarity in name coupled with typing it immediately under Müs' name.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
You know, that's a really cool way to do the release. Test the infrastructure with non-critical elements, and release as things become complete. The kind of things you can do with kickstarter backed non-publisher games never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks for editing the list, I feel all official now. I had figured Darksiege had actually signed up as well.
Somebody picked through the Map Video frame by frame and cross-referenced it with some of the fiction to compile this...
Om nom nom. It's getting hard not to obsess over where we should set up our operations...
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
Last edited by Kaffis Mark V on Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
The promotional grace period is almost over, so get your limited ship pledges in! To celebrate the end of the campaign, we’ve asked Chris Roberts and Lead Designer Rob Irving to walk us through one of Star Citizen’s most complex and revolutionary aspects: the fully-simulated economy!
Climbing the Ladder
Tony came from humble beginnings, making a living in his early days slinging a battered Aurora Clipper around the Ellis system hauling ore for his father’s mining operation on Pinecone. The day that he was able to make the jump to Kiel and purchase a shiny new Freelancer from the Musahi showroom there was the proudest day of his young life.
From there, he found joy navigating the major trade lanes, picking up bigger and more important loads and making a name for himself in the Merchants’ Guild. The longer the run, the better: he was seeing the universe and making a living at the same time.
Within 3 years, he and a group of friends were operating two Starfarers, two Caterpillars (for the more unruly systems), and a Constellation (slightly used) and had reliable contacts in 17 systems. When even that wasn’t enough, the seven friends formed the Anvil and Forge Mining Company and began expanding their operation into mining interests.
Eventually, A&F purchased its own ore refinery to ease the costs of getting their ore into the market. Already, Tony dreams of moving up the chain, producing his own metal parts for the major weapon manufacturers. The stars are the limit…
Meet the Economy
One of the most frequently asked-about systems in Star Citizen is the game’s economy. Today, we’d like to give you a brief introduction to that system and how it works to make the game richer, more immersive, and more fun.
Star Citizen is, at its heart, a vast living world that combines a remarkably detailed space combat simulation with an equally in-depth model of the economy of a star-spanning empire.
This article will shed some light on the engine that makes the economy go.
DISCLAIMER: As with all early releases of design information, this is a work in progress. Particularly with the economy, which is a very volatile system and will require the most careful balancing, systems and data are subject to change.
The Machine
In order to create a fairly stable economy, and yet one that is still able to be affected by player actions, the economy in Star Citizen is built to represent millions of entities (whether players or NPCs) that work together to move resources and finished goods from one end of the galaxy to the other. Miners and other resource gatherers work to extract basic resources from the available supply, traders collect those goods and deliver them to other places, escorts protect those convoys from harm (while pirates attempt the opposite), refineries turn the raw goods into processed goods, and factories collect these processed goods to build the finished products that are in demand on worlds throughout the Star Citizen universe. These goods are not assigned an arbitrary fixed price at each location. Instead, we are creating an organic system that keeps track of how much of everything is available, how much it is needed, where it is needed, and what individuals are willing to pay to get it.
Because the simulation reflects a real population going about their business, if a player is not available to carry ore from Ellis to Terra, an NPC cargo hauler will step in and run the route. If escorts are needed, and players are unavailable to escort that transport, then NPC pilots will escort the vessel. Pirates, too, might be NPC or player ships.
Meanwhile, the nodes that are producing, refining, and consuming these goods are run by non-player characters, as well. As players progress in the game, they may choose to purchase some of these facilities and take over the day-to-day oversight.
Business goes on, and players step in wherever they wish to take part.
It’s all about the Nodes
The Star Citizen universe is made up of literally thousands of nodes that drive the economy. A node is an abstract entity that accepts one or more types of input goods and outputs one or more types of output goods. The most basic nodes are “atomic” entities, meaning that they cannot be subdivided further. These atomic nodes are then combined to make up larger nodes that behave in the same fashion as the atomic nodes – requiring certain inputs and producing certain outputs. When these nodes operate together, they are able to handle some portions of their business in a self-contained fashion, while other needs must be met by external entities whether NPC trade routes, or player-run missions).
How a Node is Constructed
Each node is made up of several parts:
Node Inputs Inputs are the types of things that a node requires to operate. If too little of any given need is supplied, the node will lose productivity and alter prices and processing capacity in reaction to the shortage.
[size=b]Node Storage[/b] Storage tells how much of each thing a node can have on hand at one time. If the node’s storage for a particular desired item is full, the node will stop requesting that item until quantities diminish. Conversely, if a node’s storage is nearly out of a desired good, then the node will raise prices and spawn additional missions in an attempt to rectify the shortage.
Output items also take up storage space until they are sold or transported elsewhere. Again, if there is too much of a produced item on hand, the node will slow down production and reduce prices until demand increases sufficiently. If too little is on hand, prices will increase until production can catch up.
As a node grows, it can buy additional warehouse space to expand storage capacity.
[size=b]Node Processing Capacity[/b] A node’s processing capacity is determined by the number of workers in that node, their current happiness, and the quality of processing equipment that is currently installed. As a node grows, it can upgrade existing equipment or add additional space/equipment in order to accommodate more production.
[size=b]Node Outputs[/b] When a node has the necessary raw materials, it produces output based upon its production capacity. That output is then stored in the warehouses until it can be distributed. The equation for node production will look something like this:
Production per cycle [P] = the number of units produced per “tick” of the economy Worker morale [M] = number of workers / required workers * morale (%) Equipment percentage [E] = size of facility * (quality of equipment / max quality) Material co-efficient [MC] = minimum percentage available of all required construction units P = M * E * MC
Types of Nodes
While there are many different varieties of each node, there are a limited number of general types of nodes. Each has a particular function, and requires varying amounts of the same types of inputs to create categories of outputs. The node types can be found in Table 1.0.
People are abstracted into population nodes so that every other node in the game does not have to track the basic needs of its workers in addition to its other inputs. That way, nodes other than population nodes will not need to track anything other than whether they have enough workers to determine their effectiveness on the human side. If a group of settlers arrive on a previously uninhabited planet, a population node is created first.
Every inhabited area will consist of, at the minimum, a single population node, an entertainment node, and a landing node. For outposts and other small colonies, a raw materials node will generally round out the landing zone, perhaps with a reseller for basic supplies. Some planets will have only a single cluster of nodes, while others will have much larger clusters in several different planetary locations.
Taken as whole, a planet can also be looked at as a single macro-node, as it still has a set of resources that it needs, and a set of resources available to trade.
If the people are happy and productive, then nodes will continue to grow, enabling further nodes to be added to take advantage of the additional labor. When that now-thriving colony needs to increase its production – both to satisfy its own needs and to grow trade – perhaps an entrepreneur will decide that a nearby plot of land would be perfect for a new casino to keep those workers happy.
Table 1.0 Node Types
Let’s see it all put together in a very basic example:
This sample could be a single small outpost or a network of several worlds – or even systems.
The Production Chain
The simple example above is far short of the actual complexity of the production chain, as the list of nodes indicates. You don’t just turn a lump of ore into a spaceship. Instead, there are many steps and many actors involved in the creation of just a single Aurora.
Very large amounts of raw resources must be combined into the necessary basic materials to build the ship’s frame, cockpit, electronics, HUD screens, seats (don’t forget the leather!), and other building blocks. Meanwhile, other manufacturers are building the guns and missiles that will be added to the finished ship.
Manufactured goods are not unlimited. If nearby missile factories suddenly have a shortage of necessary components, escorts who come in from an extended firefight to restock may find missile prices very high – or stocks depleted entirely.
For the biggest, most complex products, production can take a very long time. If it takes Aegis a month to produce an Idris, and there has been a recent run on corvettes, you might find yourself waiting for a while to pick up a shiny new ship from their shipyards.
Keeping Resources Flowing
Heavily-populated systems (as far as nodes are concerned) will often have very consistent needs for resources, as well as having fairly constant exports available. Systems that can meet one another’s needs may set up regular trade lanes, which will cause transport missions to be launched at a regular frequency to deliver needed goods to a constant buyer. If these lanes go through more dangerous space, they may be diverted to take longer routes, or request escorts to accompany the missions.
In such a case, players who own larger transports or are interested in escort duty can step in to take over these missions, provided that they are well-known to the corporations or organizations in question.
At any point where expected production levels have not been reached, freely-available trade goods will become more limited. Regularly-established trade routes will be the last to suffer from shortages.
Nodes where buyers have less need and nodes that are farther away from protected space, will request resources on a less frequent basis, and missions of this sort will generally be given to the lowest bidder, although relationships might be established with traders who perform frequent services for the client.
For emergencies – where deliveries have been disrupted, or some sort of major event has caused a sudden shortage of resources, higher-paying missions will be sent out on a first-come, first-served basis. Similar missions will be generated when a location that is typically self-sustaining with regards to some resources experiences a change in conditions, such as drought, riots, or other events that cause a temporary shift in that area’s ability to provide for its own basic needs.
Whatever route players choose to trade along, there will always be places for traders of any means to make a living throughout the Star Citizen universe.
Making Your Name as an Industry Giant
Even players who start out with the most humble beginnings may eventually grow vast trading empires. Starting with small on-demand cargo runs, players can grow their wealth, acquire larger ships, build their reputations with the biggest corporations, and establish their own trade lanes that span the galaxy.
Players and organizations who amass enough wealth can take control of individual production nodes and begin building an industrial empire. The most aggressive entrepreneurs may take over whole sections of a supply chain and begin producing their own goods for sale on the open market – if they can keep the resources flowing. But be warned – some large corporations don’t appreciate competition!
While you are running your mine, refinery, or factory, you will be interested in more than just the raw materials that it needs! If your production node slows down because it doesn’t have enough workers, or their morale is low, you will need to help support the local population node or make sure that there are enough entertainment nodes to keep your workers happy and productive.
What’s in it for me?
The Star Citizen economy is certainly a vast undertaking. In addition to making a massive space combat simulation, we are also building a simulation of the economic universe in which the characters live. We offer players the ability to participate as much (or as little) in the economy as they desire. As new worlds are discovered, colonies are born, and new cities grow on the frontier, each type of player can be a link somewhere in the economic chain.
However much your character is driving the economy, the economy is helping to drive your play experience.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
But it holds so much promise for the future .. to be hazardous to your health. Hmm. We'll have to exchange Dominoes numbers so if somebody goes unrepsonsive, we can send an emergency pizza through their window.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
I've basically been reading every single piece of info on the net about this game, Chris Roberts enthusiasm is so infectious. Can't remember being this excited about a game in quite a while. Gonna have to buy the game and 500 bucks in peripherals and I can't wait. Full HOTAS setup, oculus rift, Leap. Oh yeaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.
I found the concept of an MMO that generates missions based upon virtual economic realities too delicious to ignore. So instead of going out and collecting 6 bear pelts because the programmers needed to create something for you to waste your time upon, you do it because the AI needs bear pelts (or whatever).
_________________ I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am Posts: 15740 Location: Combat Information Center
Yeah, and that's also better than the EVE system of random missions based on templates that you do over and over for money. It's really a tedious way to make money, shooting red X's solo. Even though EVE's economy is almost entirely player-run, the missions still don't tie into the economy. They're purely an ISK Faucet.
_________________ "Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."
The past that most intrigues me is that it takes a lot of the elements out of the Pirates of the Burning Sea model that I loved, like an economic model that requires players to haul goods from place to pace through potentially dangerous shipping routes, and removes a lot of the annoying effects of a player run economy that disadvantages people trying to participate in it individually. See, PotBS had systems meant to require player interdependency, and then others to help facilitate interaction to meet that interdependency. Supply chains were complex logistical problems, and there was a robust auction house to create buy orders so other players could see a need and fill it. This basically went unused, though, as 95%of the economically minded players just created insular guilds that planned their supply chain externally to maximize efficiency. So, in the end, nothing but finished goods or raw materials ever sold on the open market, purely due to player behavior, so if you were a solo player, you either just had a bunch of raw material generation, or you stuck to the handful of finished goods that could be manufactured from start to finish by one or two guys.
Then, on top of that, the big crafting conglomerates would create a barrier to entry into the big markets by using economies of scale to undercut what people trying to break into the ship market could produce at. It use to drive DFK and I crazy...
This sort circuits that behavior model by injecting NPCs into the mix as a constant supply and demand pressure at all levels, providing a steady stabilizing buffer that will allow the one guy who, like I did, wanted to participate in a subset of the economy by biting off something he could chew and efficiently providing a specialty suboptimum (in PotBS, for example, I wanted to be a gun runner, producing the cannons that would go into the final production of ships. I ended up shifting to ammo, dive that was a final product that I could manage without having to rely on being able to either buy or sell processed subcomponents).
In fact, this goes a step farther, and extends the same system of constant NPC supply and demand pressures to non-crafting play, which is brilliant. Because players who guild up large enough are just as unlikely to go out of guild to his an escort as they are too publicly contract their widget supply. That not only creates a backup alternative to direct player interaction, but it also serves to solve the content generation problem, as well.
Pretty clever, if they don't drop the ball.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
It's amazing how much money this game has crowd funded.
Also, at 14 million, we get hibernation (ability to log in dep space safely), excellent for explorers.
New goals:
$15 million
Additional flyable ship class: escort carrier The Upgrade Handbook: an extra 42-page manual that walks players through the process of customizing and overclocking their ship systems! (PDF free to all backers before $15 million) And now we’re excited to reveal the $16 million additions:
$16 million
Arena mode: an area for players to test one another’s skills without risking valuable items or hard-earned ships and experience. Place bets on competitions across the galaxy. A laser pistol for every pledger before this point. Keep your ship safe from boarders with a pistol by your side.
Looking forward to drooling over my upgrade handbook.
Eww. Actually pretty disappointed in arena mode. Creating "safe" PvP is the surest way to siphon off any experimental interest in usually-PvE players, to the mass detriment of a healthy open-world PvP environment.
And a healthy open-world PvP is kind of necessary as a cash sink to make a non-inflationary economy work.
Maybe they'll surprise me, but I'm not really excited over that.
I can't decide what I want to hope for on the sidearm, though. Do I cross my fingers for a sleek, no-nonsense military-style sidearm? Or something that oozes frontier cowboy style like Mal's pistol or a scoped DL-44?
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
Nothing about this game screams cowboy style to me, so probably the first one. Also I was looking at the tavern concept art. Are pilots going to have to wear space suits all the time?
_________________ I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"
Eww. Actually pretty disappointed in arena mode. Creating "safe" PvP is the surest way to siphon off any experimental interest in usually-PvE players, to the mass detriment of a healthy open-world PvP environment.
And a healthy open-world PvP is kind of necessary as a cash sink to make a non-inflationary economy work.
Maybe they'll surprise me, but I'm not really excited over that.
I can't decide what I want to hope for on the sidearm, though. Do I cross my fingers for a sleek, no-nonsense military-style sidearm? Or something that oozes frontier cowboy style like Mal's pistol or a scoped DL-44?
I'm also disappointed in arena mode, due to the reason you mentioned, why would anyone that was worried about their skills take the more risky route? Although, I have to admit, sitting in a space bar placing bets on the highest ranked player matches could be cool.
As for the sidearm, don't we need something like this?
Nothing about this game screams cowboy style to me, so probably the first one. Also I was looking at the tavern concept art. Are pilots going to have to wear space suits all the time?
Oh. I didn't mean something that actually invoked Westerns or anything. I guess I meant...
Hrm.
Smooth, ergonomic, featureless futuristic casing like a Star Trek Phaser vs. Star Wars/Firefly metal, rugged-looking thing with more pronounced greebling and/or functionally recognizable modern firearm analogue components.
And, now that I break it down that way in my head, definitely the latter.
Oh, as for wearing space suits all the time -- no. Let me dig up the concept art... Let's see, here are the bounty hunter concepts we've been shown, showcasing some civilian body armor... Edit: I was not prepared for how huge the source image actually is, lol. Okay, dug up a smaller version that's not like 3300 px across...
And somewhere, there's a smuggler privateer concept somewhere.. Okay, I'm not sure which commlink this originally came from, but it IS Star Citizen..
So the answer is either "no" or "yes, but you can wear light spacesuits with awesome fashion statements over top of them," depending on whether you figure the bounty hunters are actually wearing space suits.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
ok, that's good. Also I wouldn't worry too much about the arena. I'd imagine anyone who wants to get out and see the galaxy will have to deal with piracy (both PC and AI) and therefore PVP
_________________ I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"
I'd imagine anyone who wants to get out and see the galaxy will have to deal with piracy (both PC and AI) and therefore PVP
That's not the part I'm worried about. The part I'm worried about is that the arena might take away the desire/need to get out and see the galaxy. If there's no risk, there's no need to run jobs to pay the bills, as it were. Get however much money you initially need to set yourself up nicely in the arena, and then never step outside it again.
But again, maybe I'll be surprised. I'm open to the notion, and won't shed a tear if I'm wrong.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
One of the cool things about this project is that it has a lot of facets that people can explore, as much or as little as they like. Some people may be arena junkies but I think that there are going to be enough people interested in content that we don't need to worry. Just like warzones in WoW or Swtor. We already have over 200k "subscriptions" and the game isn't going to be live for another year or so.
Edit (Holy Autocorrect, Batman)
_________________ I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"
Last edited by Rorinthas on Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
One of the cool things about this project is that it has a lot of facets that people can explore, as much or as little as they like. Some people may be arena junkies but I think that there are going to be enough people interested in content that we don't need to worry. Just like sardines in WoW or Swtor. We already have over 200k "subscriptions" and the game isn't going to be live for another year or so.
That's true, if it manages to accomplish it's initial goals for game design and actually is incredible, it's just going to keep expanding and expanding. I expect a pretty large funding bump at hangar release/various sales, and a huge one when dogfighting hits.
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Fortunately, my will is strong enough to resist paying for it twice, as it were, so I'm safe from a Dev Kit order, even though I was expecting the Dev Kits to be a slightly less polished product than they turned out.
