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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:33 pm 
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/ ... S920130624

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(Reuters) - A last-minute no-show by Pope Francis at a concert where he was to have been the guest of honor has sent another clear signal that he is going to do things his way and does not like the Vatican high life.

The gala classical concert on Saturday was scheduled before his election in March. But the white papal armchair set up in the presumption that he would be there remained empty.

Minutes before the concert was due to start, an archbishop told the crowd of cardinals and Italian dignitaries that an "urgent commitment that cannot be postponed" would prevent Francis from attending.

The prelates, assured that health was not the reason for the no-show, looked disoriented, realizing that the message he wanted to send was that, with the Church in crisis, he - and perhaps they - had too much pastoral work to do to attend social events.

"It took us by surprise," said one Vatican source on Monday. "We are still in a period of growing pains. He is still learning how to be pope and we are still learning how he wants to do it."

"In Argentina, they probably knew not to arrange social events like concerts for him because he probably wouldn't go," said the source, who spoke anonymously because he is not authorized to discuss the issue.

The picture of the empty chair was used in many Italian papers, with Monday's Corriere della Sera newspaper calling his decision "a show of force" to illustrate the simple style he wants Church officials to embrace.

Since his election on March 13, Francis, the former cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina, has not spent a single night in the opulent and spacious papal apartments.

He has preferred to live in a small suite in a busy Vatican guest house, where he takes most meals in a communal dining room and says Mass every morning in the house chapel rather than the private papal chapel in the Apostolic Palace.

The day before the concert, Francis said bishops should be "close to the people" and not have "the mentality of a prince".

On Saturday, while the concert was in progress in an auditorium just meters (yards) away, Francis was believed to be working on new appointments for the Curia, the Vatican's troubled central administration.

The administration was held responsible for some of the mishaps and scandals that plagued the eight-year reign of Pope Benedict before he resigned in February.

Francis inherited a Church struggling to deal with priests' sexual abuse of children, the alleged corruption and infighting in the Curia, and conflict over the running of the Vatican's scandal-ridden bank.

Benedict left a secret report for Francis on the problems in the administration, which came to light when sensitive documents were stolen from the pope's desk and leaked by his butler in what became known as the "Vatileaks" scandal.

The Vatican source said he expected Francis to make major changes to Curia personnel by the end of the summer.

Anger at the mostly Italian prelates who run the Curia was one of the reasons why cardinals chose the first non-European pope for 1,300 years.

The key appointment will be the next secretary of state, sometimes referred to as the Vatican's prime minister, to succeed the Italian Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who has been widely blamed for the failings of the Curia.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:42 am 
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This has been my favorite Pope story.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... -delivery/

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Buenos Aires, Argentina, Mar 21, 2013 / 12:01 pm (CNA/EWTN News)

Pope Francis surprised the owner of a kiosk in Buenos Aires with a telephone call to send his greetings and explain that he will no longer need a morning paper delivered each day.

Around 1:30 p.m. local time on March 18, Daniel Del Regno, the kiosk owner’s son, answered the phone and heard a voice say, “Hi Daniel, it’s Cardinal Jorge.”

He thought that maybe a friend who knew that the former Archbishop of Buenos Aires bought the newspaper from them every day was pulling a prank on him.

“Seriously, it’s Jorge Bergoglio, I’m calling you from Rome,” the Pope insisted.

“I was in shock, I broke down in tears and didn’t know what to say,” Del Regno told the Argentinean daily La Nacion. “He thanked me for delivering the paper all this time and sent best wishes to my family.”

Del Regno shared that when Cardinal Bergoglio left for Rome for the conclave, he asked him if he thought he would be elected Pope.

“He answered me, ‘That is too hot to touch. See you in 20 days, keep delivering the paper.’ And the rest is, well, history,” he said.

“I told him to take care and that I would miss him,” Del Regno continued. “I asked him if there would ever be the chance to see him here again. He said that for the time being that would be very difficult, but that he would always be with us.”

Before hanging up the phone, he added, the Pope asked him for his prayers.

Daniel’s father, Luis Del Regno, said they delivered the paper to the former cardinal’s residence every day.

On Sundays, he said, the cardinal “would come by the kiosk at 5:30 a.m. and buy La Nacion. He would chat with us for a few minutes and then take the bus to Lugano, where he would serve mate (tea) to young people and the sick.”

Among the “thousands of anecdotes” the elder Del Regno remembers is one involving the rubber bands that he put around the newspapers to keep them from being blown away when they were delivered to the cardinal.

“At the end of the month, he always brought them back to me. All 30 of them!”

He said he gets goose bumps whenever he thinks about Pope Francis’ simplicity.

“In June he baptized my grandson, it was an amazing feeling,” Del Regno said. “I know what he’s like. He’s one of a kind.”

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:27 am 
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I admit he's certainly surprised me at ALMOST every turn.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Good on him. Still don't agree on a lot of things, but good on him.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:18 pm 
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He wear the shoes of the fisherman well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Audit the FED!-ican. That is, the Vatican Bank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23063255

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Pope Francis sets up commission to review Vatican bank
David Willey

BBC News, Rome


A commission of inquiry has been set up by Pope Francis to review the activities of the Vatican bank, following recent scandals.

Earlier this month, he named a trusted cleric to oversee the management of the bank, which is known officially as the Institute for Religious Works.

The institution, one of the world's most secretive banks, has been beset by allegations of money-laundering.

It has 114 employees and $7.1bn (£4.6bn; 5.4bn euros) of assets.

Pope Francis has given the commission carte blanche, bypassing normal secrecy rules, to try to get to the bottom of scandals which have plagued the bank for decades.

The Institute for the Works of Religion was a major shareholder in the Banco Ambrosiano, a big Italian bank which collapsed in 1982 with losses of more than $3bn. Its chairman, Roberto Calvi, was found hanging from Blackfriars Bridge in London - murder disguised as suicide. Mr Calvi had close relations with the Vatican.

More recently, the Vatican's bank has been accused of money laundering. In 2010, the then Pope Benedict set up a financial information authority to monitor its international transactions and to ensure that rules on money laundering and the financing of terrorism were being respected.

Inspectors from Moneyval, an international banking watchdog based in Paris, went through the bank's books and reported that there was still some way to go before the Vatican bank could be granted "white list" status.

The new commission is tasked with ensuring the bank operates in "harmony" with the mission of the Church.

It is made up of Mary Ann Glendon, a Harvard law professor, and four senior clerics: Italian cardinal Raffaele Farina, French cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, Spanish bishop Juan Ignacio Arrieta Ochoa de Chinchetru and US cleric Monsignor Peter Bryan Wells.

On 15 June, the Pope appointed Monsignor Battista Mario Salvatore Ricca as the bank's interim prelate - effectively his representative at the institution.

In February, German lawyer Ernst von Freyberg was named the bank's new chairman, eight months after his predecessor was ousted amid a money-laundering inquiry.

His appointment was one of the last acts of Pope Francis's predecessor, Benedict XVI.

Mr von Freyberg set about instituting checks on the bank's 19,000 accounts, which are mostly held by Vatican employees, charities, priests and nuns.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:40 pm 
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If the Pope decided that he wanted to give away 90% of the Vatican's riches to poor people across the globe, would they be able to stop him? I mean, he's both the spiritual leader of Catholics and the literal king of the Vatican.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:53 pm 
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Well, since Darth Popious retired, I doubt the Argentinian could take the Swiss Guard.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:45 pm 
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http://www.latimes.com/news/world/world ... 9944.story

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:57 pm 
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I agree that those who are struggling with homosexual orientation/tendencies should be cared for. Nearly everyone has problems in the area of proper, Godly, sexual desire/attraction. That line starts here and heads around the world. However sin is still sin.

I think many are trying to turn his remarks into something they were not meant to be, but I could be wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Or perhaps this pope is the first with he courage to reject things read into Holy Scripture that are not there.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Or perhaps this pope is the first with he courage to reject things read into Holy Scripture that are not there.

As a Catholic, ^that

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:28 pm 
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So Mathew 5:28 and other verses about fornication are "not there?" The scriptures are pretty clear that all sex and sexual desire outside the one man one woman covanent-for-life relationship falls short of God's perfect standard (commonly called sin). Do people fail at this, even people close to God's own heart, like David. Sure they do, but it's still sin.

If we seem to "fixate" on homosexuality, that's because that's where the culture clash is right now, though I'll happily decry no fault divorce, shacking up, and the decline of the value of fatherhood when the situation warrants.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:35 pm 
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They're there - and you're reading them in English.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Everything we believe about the scripture we read in English, so what? I use Strong's when I feel the need is there.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Er....

Matthew 5:28 wrote:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Er....

Matthew 5:28 wrote:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


yep. that's the and sexual desire depart. Adultery is sexual action outside the marriage covenant which was one man and one woman for life in the beginning and is never changed in scripture. Sure scripture contains people who messed that up, but that's the truth.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:40 pm 
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So... Nothing about teh gayness then? Or even a sin... Just hot ***** make you burn in da hellfire?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:40 pm 
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see my edit, hopwin.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:41 pm 
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I'll happily admit homosexuality, as far as sin goes, isn't mentioned a lot in the NT. As I said, if we seem to fixate on that, that's because that's where the culture clash is today.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Where do you get the concept of monogamy out of the bible?

See Also:
Leviticus 15:19-30

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:48 pm 
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And from the start...

Genesis 28:9

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Polygamy was cool in the OT but modern Christians like to pretend that God changed his set of morals after he had a son. An argument for monogamous marriage citing the Bible is untenable.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Well, you know, you settle down, start a family, and discussion of the past gets awkward.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Lev 15 seems to be dealing with illness and ceremonial uncleanliness. I would imagine while she might be resting in multiple places, it doesn't mean she is necessarily having sex there. It's something I'll honestly have to study more.

Back to your question

Again, the beginning he created one for one, and Adam stated that this is why a man should leave his family and "cleave to his wife" If people want to hark translation Strong's seems to point out that word is never used in the plural. The Hebrew word for man is used in the plural some times, but 5 times as much in the singular, and is preceded by a definite article.

Exodus 20 introduces the concept of adultery in the bible which is sex by someone out of the marriage coventant.

Lev 17 says King's should not multiply wives to themselves.

Lev 20 introduces the OT prohibition homosexuality (I know we aren't under the law, let me get there.)


Fornication, which I understand to be sex before marriage, isn't mentioned until much later, and admittedly doesn't always have to deal with sex.

In the new Testiment, Jesus expands, not contracts, the definition of Adultery to include the thought life. So Jesus aparently expects more out of his followers than the law did in the area of sexual purity.

In Romans 1 Paul lists (among several other things) homosexuality as a symptom of rejecting God.

Fornication, which seems to be a blanket term, for adultury, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, and may other things, according to Strong's, is decryed several times in the NT. It's abstinence one of the very few things the emerging church of gentiles is asked to adhere too after the first council.

In First Timothy 3, the qualifications for a Bishop (as in Pastor, or First Bishop of Rome)include "Husband of one Wife"(not zero). This would be repeated to Titus, so perhaps this is what Bishops were told as they looked to ordain other Bishops.

Yes we're under grace, but we shouldn't "sin so grace can abound" (Romans 6). I believe that God's standards are still his standards. We have rescue from the ultimate punishment of failure to meet those standards (eternal separation from God in a literal lake of fire) in Jesus Christ, but NT also encourages us to live the life of Victory over sin now (and that's a whole other series of sermons), which we can only do through his grace and power.

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