The Glade 4.0

Not sure if we have any teachers here.

Anyway, next week, my son starts kindergarten. New people, new building, new teacher, new friends, new schedule, new things to learn. None of this concerns me. He's a smart, friendly, social kid - he'll do fine.

What concerns me is hostile zero-tolerance policies.

My kid's favorite games to play are "aggressive games": tag, shoot bad guys, sword fighting, making bows and arrows from sticks, etc. Typical stuff.

And yet you hear about the occasional kid getting tossed out of school for shooting bad guys with his pop-tart or whatever. More importantly, you hear about teachers constantly stepping in to disrupt this type of play.

Boys will be boys. I know this solicits groans, but it's true.

I'm new to this and have an orientation meeting with the teacher coming up. I'd like to express my concerns, but don't want to paint a bullseye on my kid's chest either, and don't want to start off on the wrong foot.

Suggestions for initiating this discussion with the teacher? Thoughts on the subject in general?

I only have girls, and didn't ever have this problem, although my oldest was/is rather tomboyish. I would say, however, that part of the reason these stories are news is that they're outliers. Still, I think you definitely should bring it up. Is there any orientation material to read that might give you an idea of the baseline policy?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I am not a teacher. Almost everyone in my family, however, IS a teacher.

That said:

This discussion - To what purpose would you have such a discussion? The teacher does not set policy and cannot change policy. The administrators will not change policies just because you don't like them. So without knowing your specific purpose, I'd say you'll probably be wasting your time and just creating a target on your child.

In general - these zero tolerance policies are absolutely retarded.



However, if you are just trying to learn about the policies for your own frame of reference? Sure, but I'd just get the school manual and read it. Bringing a spotlight on your child just means the focus is now on your child.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Don't borrow trouble. You should never share anything about your kid with his school, they should share with you. In a perfect world it would be responsible of you to get involved like you describe, but we're far from that. The last thing you need to do is to potentially throw a flag on the field.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Most people still have a bit of common sense and I would hope teachers/administrators can tell the difference between a 5 year old playing and a 14 year old bringing a gun to school in his backpack. I'm sure boys still run around on the playground shooting each other playing army, or transformers, or whatever. I haven't recently read about every kid in the world being expelled. I would suggest waiting to see if it becomes a problem and addressing it then. As others have said, no need to start a dialog that might cause problems between your child and the teacher before it's necessary.

While she does not set policy, she's the one that will or will not enforce it. She can say "stop doing that with your poptart rather than sending him to the office.

But again, I'm mostly concerned about the day-to-day constant squashing of activities.
So, it’s one part gathering info on the policy, one part gathering info on her enforcement of policy, one part letting her know I’m concerned about the application of such policies. Now, the latter will indicate that 1) I do not disapprove of such behavior, 2) my child acts this way, and 3) that I will inevitably be a headache if she punishes my child for such things.
There will be other dads there, and I’m sure they will also share these concerns.

So that’s the purpose – the question is, what do you guys think will be the result?

Yeah, I suppose you guys are right.

Though, I'd much prefer to simply develop a list of what and how to teach my child and get her buy-in at the meeting.

/sigh

God damn it....

So, you're wanting your child to be granted exception to the policies (which you haven't researched yet), because your child is a special little snowflake and "acts this way." As the child of an elementary school teacher, let me just say: shocking.

If you want to do something useful and productive, teach your child the difference between acceptable behavior in school and acceptable behavior at home.

I wouldn't say anything. My son would hang out with older kids, one of whom liked to make "swords" made out of paper or cardboard. The after-school playground lady once pointed out that those were technically illegal and could get them kicked out of school. <b>She</b> rolled her eyes at this, but was also constrained by district policy and all that. But it never became an issue.

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This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge

This is a normal, public school with a bunch of other kids in the same classroom, correct?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Yeah, I knew this sort of asinine response was inevitable. Had you actually read my post, you would have seen that A) I'm trying to find out the school policies and how she enforces them. So no, I haven't researched it, but I don't typically make sure I have all my questions answered before I attend Q&A sessions. (By the way, the school manuals are being provided at this session) B) I said nothing in particular about my child, other than to say he's a normal kid. You'll notice I mentioned shared concerns amongst other dads.

Now, let me ask you this - as a parent concerned with a bad policy, should I shut my mouth, tell my child to act abnormally for a child, and hope for the best, or should I find out how the policy is handled, and if I disagree with it, work to have it changed?

I'm soliciting advice on how to handle a situation of which I have no experience. While I appreciate criticism as much as the next guy, you can take your righteous indignation and shove it.

Yes - the above is a joke (obviously).

Yes, this approach is probably best. While I'm sure she's reasonable, there is the occasional Farsky out there who may take offense at having her methods and procedures even questioned.

I don't know her, so I'd likely be better off just playing it safe.

I had an actual wooden sword as a kid ( not at school). I would be honest and let the teacher know what your expectations (remember she works for you) and concerns are up front.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Yeah, me too! My brother and I loved our swords (though my knuckles didn't).

My daughter loves swords (she's got her own wooden sword/shield - how can you turn down a little girl at the Fair when she wants to be a knight, not a princess) and having gunfights with the neighbor boys.
I just told her that school has rules that we don't have at home. I told her that those rules were made by people who are afraid of swords and guns. She didn't want to make them more afraid.
It was a bit more difficult at Halloween because she wanted to bring a sword and "Halloween is about being afraid, right"...
When the monkeys are in charge, the monkeys make the rules.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I'd suggest reading the student handbook, or whatever literature they have first, and then taking up your concern with either the principle or the superintendant.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

While his response was indeed snarky, it is 100% dead on. You need to understand the rules and then help your kid learn how to adjust to them. This is his first foray into understanding what living in the larger society is about. Part of that education is how to behave in public, in a semi-formal situation. Just like whipping out swords and playing cowboys and indians isn't appropriate for things like church it's not appropriate in school. I'm sure that if the school has a zero-tolerance policy on something it will be clearly spelled out and should be easy to understand what it is, regardless if you agree with it or not. And, you can pretty much expect that most of the teaching staff there have been doing this for a while, so I'm sure that your kid won't be the first potentially rambunctious boy they've seen, nor the last.

That's all true. On the other hand, it takes young children a long time to adjust to school. Children simply don't have the impulse control of adults, and even well-adjusted kids who are in later grades forget sometimes, and do things they shouldn't do in school.

I think Arathain's concern is that if his kid picks up a ruler and pretends its a sword in the second week of Kindergarten, that the teacher/administration not freak out with suspensions and meetings with counselors, and calling the cops and so forth. Frankly, I think those results are unlikely; every school out there is not on a hair trigger of overreaction. Nevertheless, it can and does happen so his concerns are not unfounded.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

And my point, mainly, was that if the school is oversensitive there is almost literally nothing he can do about it.

I guess he could run for school board and if elected try to change the policy.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Understood on both points. However:

1. He hasn't even done the research to see if it is a concern, but seems to be reacting from whatever fear has been put into him from this board or Fox news.
2. He actually does have things he can do about it, such as move to a different school district, find a private school or home school.
3. It's literally like a couple weeks before the start of school. If this was something that was a real concern, it's absolutely piss poor planning that he's only now looking into it. Either researching the rules, or starting to coach his kid into how to behave in public.

If you are going to be with this school district for the next ~13 years, it might be good to begin to feel out the board, contact them individually and tell them your concerns and remember their names and reactions when you get to that section of your ballot.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

If you don't say anything and your kid plays cowboy your kid might just get some slack.

If you say something, it might put a bulls eye on the kid and an overzealous enforcer might decide to "nip it in the bud".

I'd be most inclined to play ignorant and blame the school if anything happens. "He never did that before... He must have learned that behavior here... What kind of supervision do you have here, anyway? I want to talk to the principal!"

Turn the tables on them the first chance you get. Folks wanting to make kids that point their fingers and go "bang bang" into criminals deserve whatever you can do to them.

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In time, this too shall pass.

It cracks me up that we glorify violence in every possible medium, and then have a "no tolerance policy" when our kids imitate it in play.

This has already been addressed.



All ridiculous options. You also forgot several other options, including "ignore it, hope for the best, and deal with it if it comes up" and "work to change bad policies".



First, my child does not have a behavior problem, and based upon how he's handled pre-school, he will at least not be one of the primary trouble-makers. That said, he is a boy, and acts like one. He behaves fine in public. As for piss-poor planning, tell me - what further planning is necessary? How much prep-work do you think it takes to decide whether to ask a teacher what her school's policy is and how she enforces it? I'm deciding the best way to research the policy - should I research the policy prior to researching the policy? Does that make sense to you?

Yeah, I'm with Taskiss and others on this one. I live in a conservative county so the county policies are likely not to be too ridiculous, but it is a liberal state and the state runs the school system. Overall, I'm just not going to worry about it for the time being and see how it goes. If my child is mistreated, then I'll deal with it then. I doubt he'll get in any trouble, but I hope they don't spend too much time preventing fun games like dodgeball, etc. We'll see.