The Glade 4.0

Children are part of life. Stop whining about their presence.

Yes they are. And polite adults don't shove their children into other people's lives. Stop whining about what not that many years ago was a broadly common sentiment.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Ah, like slavery, sexism, lynch mobs, stoning, the right to beat your wife, etc.

Seriously, you cannot use "Well, it used to be okay with a lot of people" as a justification.

So are bowel movements. Doesn't mean I should feel free to have one in the middle of a restaurant.

Yeah, you're a **** idiot.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

So... because I point out the obvious flaw in your logic I'm an idiot. Gotcha.

You want to make an argument that there are reasons why children should not be disruptive in public places, go for it. There are plenty of well reasoned arguments you can use. But "it used to be okay" is not one of them.

Just because those used to be okay and the sentiment DFK! has used to be okay does not mean that they are in the same league. This is a false equivalence.

Unless you mean to say that not wanting to listen to a screaming retard is somehow as bad as beating your wife or owning another human being.

I'm not suggesting they're equivalent, Lenas. I'm suggesting that the logic doesn't hold. Appeal to tradition is still a logical fallacy.

Small children have a right to travel. Small children are, by their nature, not physically able to abide by "polite indoor rules".

Further, airlines are private organizations. They allow children, if you don't like the way they run their business, start your own airline. I see this as nothing more than the same general complaints about offensive television - don't like it? Do something else.

Otherwise, yeah - not particularly interested in listening to adults whine about it. I'll forgive the children for whining, it's what they do. Adults? Not so much.

To be fair dfk is not suggesting a remedy

No, you're an idiot because you just called me a slave approving, wife beating, klan member that hates women.


Furthermore, you have made neither a logical argument nor originally used "it used to be okay." You used "It used to be ok with a lot of people." Yea, lots of things at some point were ok with a lot of people. Lots of things NOW are ok with a lot of people. That's how civil society works, you dumbass.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

And you have a clear history of thinking children are the be all and end all of life. I'm free to express my opinion. Did I say that airlines should ban children? Or ban families? No. I said that children have no business on an airplane unless the parents can make their children be civil. Additionally, children do not have a right to travel. Parents do. Parents hold the right in trust for their children.

I could logically make an argument that taking a child on an airplane is abuse of that right and any parent who does so should have a CPS intervention. I'm not. I'm just asking that parents go back to the days of understanding that not letting your children behave like wailing **** was expected in society.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Certainly that is true, however I was surprised by your complete 180 on the responsibilities of the parent. Do you mean to imply that parents that have some sort of impediment should be allowed to have their children run riot? I do truly have sympathy for the challenges of raising a special needs kid on top of having your own special needs, but frankly that doesn't lower the bar for standard of conduct in public IMHO. Especially if it's regular and consistent breaking of what is generally considered to be "acceptable".

As someone who flies frequently, I will also add that there is a HUGE difference between the parent who is actively trying to do everything they can to quiet their disruptive child and the parent who apparently thinks that "kids will be kids". The later needs to go to the special hell with the child molesters and people who talk in the theatre.

THAT.IS.AWESOME !!!

I think you'll find I did nothing to call or imply you were any of those things. I opened the door on those items because the same logic that you're applying here, was used to justify those things. I used the extreme example because those things are so obviously 'wrong' now, and were so widely accepted in the past, in hopes that you could see that the type of 'reasoning' you're applying is faulty in the extreme circumstance, so you don't try to apply it in the lesser circumstance. Faulty logic is faulty logic.

But given that you've (once again) gone straight to insults and name calling, instead of an actual reasoned argument, I give up. I'm done throwing pearls before swine.

Man, you're right. A system of democratic determination is just **** crazy. Also, slavery is the exact same thing as not wanting screaming children to be in confined places.

And yes, you did imply all those things. Now you're just going to do your normal behavior of trying to play innocent. Oh look, there it is:



I went straight to nothing, you tried to compare me to slaveholder, the klan, and wifebeating. That's not reasoned argument, that's internet twattery. I'll respond to such comparisons as I damned well please. Also, considering your previous history and that you are (according to your own statements) destined for 'the special hell', I'm pretty sure you'd be the person qualifying as "swine."

You wanna play passive aggressive insults? I don't truck that way. Call it what it is or learn to make civil arguments.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Where's Screeling when we need him?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'd have to guess he's where he normally is..... dropping a deuce.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

People should do their best to discipline their children properly before going to public places or using public/mass transportation.. That said, children do not have an "off" switch, and sometimes kids, especially little kids and babies, just get upset for no reason at all. It's not realistic to think that people with small children are not going to travel, or that you're never going to be annoyed by them. People should do their best to keep children calm and well-behaved in public, but other people also need to understand that children simply can't be kept quiet at all times, and some kids are just more difficult than others in that regard.

I'm still not convinced this is anything more than some teenager or young adult acting like a douchebag, though.

Also, given the fact that many kids with no impediments at all behave badly and are allowed to do so by their parents, I'm inclined to be more sympathetic to the lady in the wheelchair with the kid that's impaired somehow.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

to be fair to DFK in the earlier statement that others are blasting him for.... Until I was a parent, I wanted no kids in places where I wanted to be that required an "appropriate" kind of conduct. Then when I became a parent... I figured **** I was wrong kids should be allowed anywhere... and now that my kids are getting older, I actually agree with DFK even more than I used to. If you, as a parent cannot get your kid to stop being a whining little ****, do not be surprised if you get nasty looks.

This has nothing to do with the OP. My opinions on that are my own. But **** a... if you are going to let your 3 year old out in public, at least TRY to keep them quiet. Do not just be all "You aint telling me I cant bring my kid here!"

McDonalds... screaming kids... awesome. 5 star steakhouse where it is $60+ a plate... I want to eat my steak in piece... I do not even bring my kids into those places because they always get a case of can'tactright.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I agree with this, but I also put places like one's own front yard and public transportation far more in the category of "McDonalds" than "5-star steakhouse."

I'll put in another shameless plug for the railroad here - you can get a family sleeper room where your kid can fuss without annoying everyone else.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I agree with the first part... As for the second dirty trainatarian!!! hehe

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Oh, I should also mention that Willie is quite accurate in my sig - we went from Texas to Cleveland in Coach class (no room; they were all taken) and the rythm of the rails really DOES put small children to sleep.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'm all for parents doing everything in their power to contain disruptive behavior in their children. But given that many adults can't even contain their own disruptive behavior, I rather suspect that's a losing battle.
The issue is that children are not always predictable. Just when you think they've got it under control, something throws them. Sometimes that's a new environment. My personal approach usually involves getting them out of the situation, but there have been times when attempts to contain the behavior only exacerbates it. An aggressive enforcement of rules does not end some temper tantrums. Children often act out for attention--giving it to them, even negative attention (Punishments, spankings, etc) , simply reinforces the behavior. I try to give parents the benefit of the doubt that they know what will best contain the behavior or at least know that they're working to train the child.

If a child acts up in a department store, and the parent buys them a toy to avoid disrupting other shoppers, is the parent really being responsible?

There are certainly environments where it is best not to bring children, particularly when they will disrupt other paying customers. That said, there are not always options. A plane may be necessary for example.