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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Talya wrote:
the people are the ones that suffer for it. This inflation is just another form of taxation.

Depends. Inflation is generally a loss for savers and lenders but a gain for debtors (assuming their loans aren't pegged to inflation). Given how deeply in debt most American households are, I think slightly higher inflation would probably result in a net transfer of wealth from banks and credit card companies to regular people.

I don't know of any credit cards that aren't tied to inflation.

Hm, really? I've never seen one that was. Certainly most cards are variable rate, but interest rates and inflation tend to be inversely related, so there's no de facto peg there either.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
The problem being that the buying power of their income is being reduced right along with the buying power of their debt, and their incomes are not necessarily increasing at the same rate as inflation.

True, there are a number of variables involved, but I think the rule of thumb is still that higher inflation is generally a positive for debtors and a negative for creditors.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:55 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
The problem being that the buying power of their income is being reduced right along with the buying power of their debt, and their incomes are not necessarily increasing at the same rate as inflation.

True, there are a number of variables involved, but I think the rule of thumb is still that higher inflation is generally a positive for debtors and a negative for creditors.


In general this is true, and was an argument against the Gold Standard back when William Jennings Bryan was arguing for more inflation so that farmers could pay off their debts more easily. That doesn't really translate too well to it being a positive in the average household though, especially when that debt is on credit cards.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:46 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Talya wrote:
the people are the ones that suffer for it. This inflation is just another form of taxation.

Depends. Inflation is generally a loss for savers and lenders but a gain for debtors (assuming their loans aren't pegged to inflation). Given how deeply in debt most American households are, I think slightly higher inflation would probably result in a net transfer of wealth from banks and credit card companies to regular people.

I don't know of any credit cards that aren't tied to inflation.

Hm, really? I've never seen one that was. Certainly most cards are variable rate, but interest rates and inflation tend to be inversely related, so there's no de facto peg there either.


Most are variable, tied to Prime, or whatever. This is typically raised when inflation rises. So, your scenario only results in wealth redistribution if the interest rates remain stagnant, while inflation rises. They don't.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Most are variable, tied to Prime, or whatever. This is typically raised when inflation rises. So, your scenario only results in wealth redistribution if the interest rates remain stagnant, while inflation rises. They don't.


You have cause and effect backwards, I think. You certainly have the relationship between inflation and interest rates backwards, but that's understandable. What you are saying could have been perceived to be true in the past, because governments used to raise interest rates in an effort to curb inflation, because raising rates has an inverse effect on inflation, but governments have can no longer afford to raise interest rates without disastrous effects on their deficit/debt issues.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Most are variable, tied to Prime, or whatever. This is typically raised when inflation rises. So, your scenario only results in wealth redistribution if the interest rates remain stagnant, while inflation rises. They don't.


You have cause and effect backwards, I think. You certainly have the relationship between inflation and interest rates backwards, but that's understandable. What you are saying could have been perceived to be true in the past, because governments used to raise interest rates in an effort to curb inflation, because raising rates has an inverse effect on inflation, but governments have can no longer afford to raise interest rates without disastrous effects on their deficit/debt issues.


Low interest rates drives inflation. Yes, governments raise interest rates to curb inflation. As inflation rises, generally, interest rates follow.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Why? Inflation makes it harder for people to save. The people with a lot of money don't care, they get the benefit of the easing, but everyone else lose value on their savings. It's just one more thing that helps continue the growing difficulties for most Americans.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:28 pm 
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@Wwen: When people have less money, they buy less (lower demand), which in turn puts downward pressure on prices. Higher interest rates mean people have less available money, so inflation is curbed.

Except interest rates have remained incredibly low now for almost 20 years. There have been no significant changes to interest rates in the last decade. The Bank of Canada prime lending rate has varied between 0.5% and 4.5% in that time, and is currently sitting at 1.25%. Between 1979 and 1991, it varied between 9% and 19%, but it rapidly dropped off after 1991 and never ever really rose again, despite real inflation right now being worse than it has been in 30 years.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Taly:

Everything you've said has been compartmentalized. None of this exists in a vacuum.

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