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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:32 am 
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Khross challenged that any of my friends and family could support it, so even one anecdote refutes his statement, and makes it demonstrably false. Anecdotal evidence is valid in that circumstance, particularly when the general pool size is small. (My friends & family in the medical profession (more specifically those I discuss politics with, or know their political stance))


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:38 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
Khross challenged that any of my friends and family could support it, so even one anecdote refutes his statement, and makes it demonstrably false. Anecdotal evidence is valid in that circumstance, particularly when the general pool size is small. (My friends & family in the medical profession (more specifically those I discuss politics with, or know their political stance))


And yet, you cited an article trying to say how many people (specifically physician) are in support, and were using your family to try to help make that point. It's bullshit, and you cited a study that you failed to comprehend.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:40 am 
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http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/24/you-c ... ance-under

Quote:
You Can Keep Your Health Insurance Under Obamacare? Not So Much.

J.D. Tuccille|Oct. 24, 2013 2:49 pm



U.S. GovernmentPresident Obama (in)famously said, "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan" under the Affordable Care Act. As it turns out, not so much. Hundreds of thousands of Americans, it turns out, are receiving letters telling them that their existing coverage just isn't good enough to satisfy the strict rquirements of the Obamacare law, and that they'll have to sign up for new policies. Those new policies come with new stipulations, and new price tags. Which is to say, it doesn't matter if you like your health care plan, since you probably can't keep it.

From Kaiser Health News:


Quote:
Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage, frustrating some consumers who want to keep what they have and forcing others to buy more costly policies.

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1. Most are ending policies sold after the law passed in March 2010. At least a few are cancelling plans sold to people with pre-existing medical conditions.


What share of existing plans are getting the heave-ho? It varies, but a lot. "


Quote:
Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.


In fact, writes, Bob Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, LLC, a health policy consulting firm, the vast majority of individual plans don't make the cut under new requirements, promises to the contrary notwithstanding:


Quote:
The U.S. individual health insurance market currently totals about 19 million people. Because the Obama administration's regulations on grandfathering existing plans were so stringent about 85% of those, 16 million, are not grandfathered and must comply with Obamacare at their next renewal. The rules are very complex. For example, if you had an individual plan in March of 2010 when the law was passed and you only increased the deductible from $1,000 to $1,500 in the years since, your plan has lost its grandfather status and it will no longer be available to you when it would have renewed in 2014.

These 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law's benefit mandates––the vast majority by January 1. Most of these will be seeing some pretty big rate increases.


Grandfathered plans are those that existed before March 23, 2010 and "stayed basically the same." They're still subject to tight regulations (though not quite the same as newer plans) and many seem to fall afoul of the "stayed basically the same" requirement. A couple of tweaks, and subscribers get a letter. Along with those letters, and the new policies to which they point customers, are new bills.

Again from Kaiser:


Quote:
Some receiving cancellations say it looks like their costs will go up, despite studies projecting that about half of all enrollees will get income-based subsidies.

Kris Malean, 56, lives outside Seattle, and has a health policy that costs $390 a month with a $2,500 deductible and a $10,000 in potential out-of-pocket costs for such things as doctor visits, drug costs or hospital care.

As a replacement, Regence BlueShield is offering her a plan for $79 more a month with a deductible twice as large as what she pays now, but which limits her potential out-of-pocket costs to $6,250 a year, including the deductible.

“My impression was …there would be a lot more choice, driving some of the rates down,” said Malean, who does not believe she is eligible for a subsidy.

Regence spokeswoman Rachelle Cunningham said the new plans offer consumers broader benefits, which “in many cases translate into higher costs.”

“The arithmetic is inescapable,” said Patrick Johnston, chief executive officer of the California Association of Health Plans. Costs must be spread, so while some consumers will see their premiums drop, others will pay more -- “no matter what people in Washington say.”

The new and unwilling health plan shoppers are, of course, funneled by their law-mandated letters of cancellation to the health exchanges that seem to be experiencing just a touch of difficulty at the moment. Once there, they'll find in most cases that premiums are rising dramatically, ad that access to doctors and hospitals has been reduced.

Enjoy your affordable care! Hope you "like your health care plan!"

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:51 am 
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DFK! wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
Khross challenged that any of my friends and family could support it, so even one anecdote refutes his statement, and makes it demonstrably false. Anecdotal evidence is valid in that circumstance, particularly when the general pool size is small. (My friends & family in the medical profession (more specifically those I discuss politics with, or know their political stance))


And yet, you cited an article trying to say how many people (specifically physician) are in support, and were using your family to try to help make that point. It's bullshit, and you cited a study that you failed to comprehend.

Got it backwards there buckaroo, though I perhaps didn't make it as clear as I hoped. I was using the survey to imply that it was possible for a subsection of the medical community to support the ACA, despite Khross's assertions to the contrary.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:10 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
People vote their paycheck. I'd call bullshit on any assertion to the contrary too. When the paycheck isn't an issue things get fuzzy, but otherwise it's where the smart man will put his chips.



The fact that a significant number of people on this board fail be able to even comprehend that someone could have another motive is really quite sad.

It's not sad, it's a statistical analysis of economic divisions and political polarization.

PDF alert!
http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/re ... Trends.pdf

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:25 pm 
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TheRiov:

Have you read the Texas bill? It requires the physician performing the procedure to have admitting privileges at the nearest qualified hospital in the case of emergencies for an outpatient procedure. Said requirements are standard for a whole world of in-office practitioners in this country. And the Texas abortion bill, while problematic for other reasons, is not problematic on the front the media or Planned Parenthood is attacking it on.

As to your parents, and I believe you, is your mother still practicing? The ACA makes it dramatically more difficult for individual doctor's to practice. And I'm not talking about the trappings of wealth or luxury; I'm talking about simply keeping the practice open.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Khross, I'm ASSUMING you're talking about Texas Senate Bill 5? Yes I've read it. But why does the doctor who did the procedure need to have admitting rights? Why can't another doctor admit the patient? Lets be honest here, Texas isn't concerned about patient health, they simply want these clinics shut down. The hospitals simply refuse doctors who work with planned parenthood admitting rights.

As for my mother, yes, she is, though only as the recovery from Chemo/Radiation lets her. Now that treatments are over though, she'll be practicing more.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Here's what I want to know: why hasn't anyone called for hearings to investigate the obvious effort by insurance companies to sabotage Obamacare by unnecessarily cancelling so many people's existing policies? 8-)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:06 pm 
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TheRiov:

The physician who performed the procedure has to have admitting rights because the patients of said procedures are generally in a legally altered state of consciousness. As such, until they are released in good health to a parent, guardian, partner, spouse, or other responsible and agreed upon party, the physician performing the procedure is legally responsible for the patient.

As to your mother, and I say this with all sincerity, she is apparently 1 person in 10 million (that is, extraordinary).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:28 pm 
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If all of the porn sites work; but not the obamacare website... why not have the dudes who make the porn sites hired to make the obamacare site?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Because then everyone will have free insurance, but only for the 10 or so minutes they really need it for.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:56 pm 
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So... this just hit me:

why can't the government mandate that everyone is to be treated free of charge and have all of the money normally given to the health care agencies delivered to them?
I mean if we are going to talk about stupid bullshit that everyone can ***** about... why the hell not.

we want everyone to have affordable health care... so **** it, everyone does. Medicare and Medicaid for everyone.
no need for private plans, etc.
double the taxes companies pay for their portion of the Medicare and medicaid: and tada

Have the employer contributions for health care and the actual dollar amount employees pay for health care be paid directly to the government, etc.

as an addendum... if it is not about getting healthcare to people, then the people **** with the American people need to be tried for treason

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Because then the insurance companies aren't getting all that phat cash. Follow the dolla dolla bills yo.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Isn't that the "public option" people talk about?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Mookhow wrote:
Isn't that the "public option" people talk about?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


Yeah, that's the "Single Payer Public Option".

We can't have that though. How will the insurance companies make their money?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:26 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
But why does the doctor who did the procedure need to have admitting rights? Why can't another doctor admit the patient? Lets be honest here, Texas isn't concerned about patient health, they simply want these clinics shut down. The hospitals simply refuse doctors who work with planned parenthood admitting rights.

Aside from what Khross mentioned, it also is a matter of physician peer review. A physician may be licensed to practice in the state, but that confers no immediate supervision or consequences if a physician repeatedly botches procedures. They are also required to be credentialed at hospitals they wish to have procedure privileges at and a medical executive committee (MEC) votes to confer those privileges to the physician. If a physician has a repeated problem with a procedure, the MEC can revoke said privileges until an appropriate peer review/education process can be completed. It provides a faster feedback loop to prevent bad practice than legal channels.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:23 am 
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Müs wrote:
Mookhow wrote:
Isn't that the "public option" people talk about?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


Yeah, that's the "Single Payer Public Option".

We can't have that though. How will the insurance companies make their money?

Or, maybe it's because then the Gov't will decide when, where, how and for what you'll be allowed treatment - folks don't particularly like that idea.

Müs wrote:
Because then the insurance companies aren't getting all that phat cash. Follow the dolla dolla bills yo.

Instead the Gov't would say, "You ain't gettin' treatment fo dat, we ain't got da skrills." Follow the death panels yo.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:06 am 
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Death panels will be reserved for people who are critical of whatever administration happens to be in power at the time. It's how we're going to get around that pesky freedom of speech issue.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:41 am 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Müs wrote:
Mookhow wrote:
Isn't that the "public option" people talk about?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


Yeah, that's the "Single Payer Public Option".

We can't have that though. How will the insurance companies make their money?

Or, maybe it's because then the Gov't will decide when, where, how and for what you'll be allowed treatment - folks don't particularly like that idea.

Müs wrote:
Because then the insurance companies aren't getting all that phat cash. Follow the dolla dolla bills yo.

Instead the Gov't would say, "You ain't gettin' treatment fo dat, we ain't got da skrills." Follow the death panels yo.


You can still get treatment, you just have to pay for it yourself or have seperate insurance that pays for it. Of course, that's harder because you still have to pay taxes for the public healthcare you're not using, but there are still plenty of private schools even though they all have to pay taxes for public schools as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:01 am 
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Also, here's the main reason why healthcare.gov failed:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/million-lines-of-code/

I don't think anyone could get a code base of that size working in the time that they had.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:27 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Death panels will be reserved for people who are critical of whatever administration happens to be in power at the time. It's how we're going to get around that pesky freedom of speech issue.

Or we could eliminate our unpaid Social Security and Medicare obligations in one fell swoop.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:46 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Also, here's the main reason why healthcare.gov failed:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/million-lines-of-code/

I don't think anyone could get a code base of that size working in the time that they had.

Why would it need more than 10x the amount of code as Windows Vista? It is a very simple portal with a very simple logical algorithm. Someone **** this right the **** up.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:50 am 
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Not sure where this belongs, but according to latest spin from the President here is how he wants to spend our money:

Image

I lolled when I saw "Government" is designated 1%.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:08 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Also, here's the main reason why healthcare.gov failed:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/million-lines-of-code/

I don't think anyone could get a code base of that size working in the time that they had.



Could be that it includes the database?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:39 am 
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Müs wrote:
Mookhow wrote:
Isn't that the "public option" people talk about?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


Yeah, that's the "Single Payer Public Option".

We can't have that though. How will the insurance companies make their money?


more importantly if insurance companies aren't making a ton of money how are they going to donate to campaigns? Will somebody think of the politicians for once!!!

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