The Glade 4.0

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:44 am 
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Should be able to hire a merc team to operate if you want. Then the game can be an intense real world game of sorting through applications and personell management with financing and setting up shifts.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:54 am 
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you could recruit PCs to watch your Battle cruiser. It'd just be a matter of finding reliable personnel.

"I have to shoot you now. Leg's nice and Clean, heals fast."

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:05 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Should be able to hire a merc team to operate if you want. Then the game can be an intense real world game of sorting through applications and personell management with financing and setting up shifts.
I'm not terribly opposed to that notion, actually.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:21 am 
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Can't wait for in-game actuarial programs!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:47 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Can't wait for in-game actuarial programs!
I think more MMOs need the work put back in them, Elmo.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:02 am 
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Just musing out loud about how granular should the process become.

I have no problem being a rental agent in the game since all interiors are explorable. Maybe own some of those big structures and rent them out to office space for clans? What about a building split so the clans have private access to their public facing clan office and the floors nearby are all clan member housing?

Woo woo. All cool. But who is the clans secretary and who do I contract out the building and security construction work - npc and I just buy it, do npc contractors put tarps down? Could I be a contractor?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
The idea is that those ships are super-guild or alliance centerpieces, not something that most people are meant to have. Most people are meant to be dogfighting in fighters -- that's how it's attempting to avoid EVE 2.0. By making big-ass capital ships so hard to keep that they're super rare and don't dominate gameplay.

That's also what makes the Corvettes appealing as small guild flagships. They're "capital" ships (in the 90's space sim sense of being multi-crew ships that demand torpedo bombers to constitute a serious attempt at taking them down) that can be put away when you're not using them.


EVE tried that. Titans, and to a lesser extent supercarriers, were supposed to be alliance-level assets that were super-rare. Alliances weren't meant originally to have more than 1-3 titans, and maybe 9-10 supercarriers, with smaller capitals (carriers and dreadnoughts) and battleships making up their core combat power.

Much like epics in EQ though, they players were having none of it and titans and supercarriers have become more and more plentiful, and despite continuous nerfs (especially to their ability to affect small ships) there's become a continuous meta of the only way to counter titans being to have more titans, to bait and destroy isolated individual supercaps, or just lag-crashing the node if in danger of losing. Despite CCPs attempts to keep up (time dialation in reference to the last) that meta has remained.

Star citizen, if it's going to allow a lot of theft of large warships and make them alliance-level (or whatever we call alliances) assets is likely to run into the same thing. They might prevent it with the Bengals by limiting it to a half-dozen in existence at once, but there's then a new quandry - do you ever risk actually using one in combat for fear of someone capturing it?

If battlecruisers (or destroyers, or whatever) have to be manned and defended at all times and can't be logged off or docked up, that's going to greatly contribute to promoting uber-alliances controlling large swathes of the game either de jure (player owned space stations) or de facto (they set up somewhere and no one else can dislodge them because they control all the bengals and have enough people to keep their battlecruiser fleet defended and manned all the time.

It's also going to promote a lot of EVE-like politics to get in control of and then dismantle from within corps/alliances that control these assets.

That isn't entirely bad; I'm all in favor of metagame, politics, and MMO drama as opposed to the practice of just running off to "ride the rides" at the themepark (i.e. log in, que up, do instance, never talk to the douchebags in your group) and I agree with Khross that some of the work needs to come back to MMOs. that said, remember those goon guys we were worried about a few pages back? They're masters of this kind of shennanigans, and whatever limits Roberts puts on whats allow they WILL exploit to the fullest, and the same crew will be the dominant power bloc in both major space MMOs.

If I can't practically own/operate a BC I can live with it, but if that IS the case, I'm very concerned about the implications. We'd best practice our torpedo delivery techniques.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:32 pm 
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I think you underestimate the deliciously fractious state of certain gameplay elements in the core design philosophy, DE. I think there may be some neat tricks up RSI's sleeves on this.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I think you underestimate the deliciously fractious state of certain gameplay elements in the core design philosophy, DE. I think there may be some neat tricks up RSI's sleeves on this.


Please do expound. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I think you underestimate the deliciously fractious state of certain gameplay elements in the core design philosophy, DE. I think there may be some neat tricks up RSI's sleeves on this.

edit: this is not worth the effort.

The state of EVE is pretty much widely observable. RSI can have all the tricks they want up their sleeves; mmo players are what they are. You want to argue with it, go argue with The Mittani.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Well for one It's a Great Big Universe (and we're all kinda puny). Even a Bengal can only be at one place at any one time and go from point A to point B so fast. So it becomes like the Bottom of Destard, you know the Reds live there and that they think they own the place. So you don't go there- especially alone, especially, during the uber guild's main playtime. Only instead of there being 7 other dungeons to go to, there are 70.

As far as Torpedo Runs go, Grouse and I will probably be running the Gladiator quite a bit. With our current roster alone we could put together an iris based bombing squad with decent screen. Make friends with a couple of other like sized groups, that's a lot of firepower.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:44 pm 
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The other thing to remember is that anybody who thinks they can own space has to go up against instancing, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:47 pm 
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sure. I don't think it's going to be easy and even it is, there's lots more space out there. And then you get into options like blockade running (especially with Ghosts or racers)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:59 pm 
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The alliance I'm concerned about has 15,000 active pilots. I don't know how much of a deterrent instancing will be to that. Even if only a quarter of them come to SC that's a lot of people.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:15 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Khross wrote:
I think you underestimate the deliciously fractious state of certain gameplay elements in the core design philosophy, DE. I think there may be some neat tricks up RSI's sleeves on this.

edit: this is not worth the effort.

The state of EVE is pretty much widely observable. RSI can have all the tricks they want up their sleeves; mmo players are what they are. You want to argue with it, go argue with The Mittani.
I'm not arguing with anyone; I'm pointing out that judging RSI by EVE's failures is premature. Conditional verbs generally indicate possibility as opposed to certainty.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:04 am 
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EVE isn't a failure in this regard; it is intentionally the way it is. RSI is not, however, trying to replicate EVE's mteagame. See discussion of suicide ganks earlier in the thread. Kaffis discussed RSI's view.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:04 pm 
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DE:

I am well aware that RSI neither wants to replicate nor give genesis to an EVE-like metagame. Your prior post appears to indicate, even if you did not intend as much, that MMO players will force an EVE-like metagame. And, to that end, I feel RSI is taking measures to avoid that situation. Of course there will be similarities and EVE includes elements they want Star Citizen to have, but I think the development of Star Citizen is ridiculously ambitious. I may actually never play, although I did upgrade my Aurora to an LX with Lifetime Insurance last night. I do support the ambitious nature of this project.

Instancing is an incredibly valuable tool, and everything I've read leads me to believe they will be approaching it much like Anarchy Online. That's actually insanely smart for a persistent world project such as this. Anarchy Online was, in its hey day, throwing 100,000+ players on each of its three servers. Instancing made that manageable and insured adequate resource, dungeon, and encounter distribution. Very few encounters were limited to single spawns server wide. RSI seems to be taking some of its notes from all MMOs in that regard.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:51 pm 
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EVE is pretty much a case study in what kind of metagame players will construct, given sufficient freedom. The question is, what will be the consequences, intended and unintended, of those measures used to prevent EVE replication? I don't think that making heavy ships a giant pain in the *** will work out very well. Capping the number of Bengals might work better.

If large ships are very hard to control, they must be correspondingly powerful when you DO control them, or they will go from "not the emphasis of the game" to "pointless". If they are that powerful, however, limiting them de facto to large alliances will mean those alliances can drop them into more instances and small groups will find it hard or impossible to counter them. My suggestion would be that they fill more of a "nice to have" role, where they can only be practically used when an enemy MUST stand and fight. Otherwise, they can be slow, cumbersome, and not much fun to fly until they must confront a comparable opponent. In that way, evreryone could have some as a fleet-in-being and support/logistical platform, but most of the fighting and day to day play would remain in the hands of the smaller, more exciting ships.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
If large ships are very hard to control, they must be correspondingly powerful when you DO control them, or they will go from "not the emphasis of the game" to "pointless".

I'd say "trophies" and "bragging rights" rather than pointless. But, yeah.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:32 pm 
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They will probably fill roles, and fill them well, while at the same time other ships will fill the counter- capital role very well. Rock-Paper-Scissors.

Managing a battle-cruiser is likely to be a difficult and skill intensive process, not for the Zerg Rush Crowd. Also a lot will be at stake (loosing the battleship if its captured or destroyed, or being without it for a long time if its insurable). I think Chris and his peeps are smart, dedicated folks, and if we are concerned about this, they've already thought about it. Personally, manning a battleship doesn't appeal to me, but doing a bombing run against one certainly does.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Its not my main goal for this game. I mostly want to have it available if we need it. If I want to fly big ships as a main activity, I can play VE fhor while.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Ship sale is paying off. 29 mil already, ship poll win with mining. Enhanced single payer go!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:59 pm 
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How do I upgrade my 3001 to the 325a? Do I just buy the 325a and it will upgrade it and only charge me the difference or is there someplace on the site I go specifically to upgrade?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:02 pm 
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There is a separate upgrade package for the 325a. If you buy another whole 325 package, you'll have two ships.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:09 am 
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Ok I guess I didn't see where the upgrade package was cause I def want to upgrade.

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