The Glade 4.0

So, thoughts on the situation in the Ukraine and what, if anything, the US and NATO should do about it? Personally, I think the best suggestion I've seen so far is to suspend Russia's membership in the G-8, put a moratorium on visas for Russian nationals in both the US and the EU, and then freeze all the oligarchs' assets held in US and EU banks. It's all easily reversible if/when Russia backs off and avoids any additional risk of direct military confrontation, but it puts a lot of personal pressure on the major power brokers within Russia who in turn can put a lot of pressure on Putin.

Wow sounds like a plan I can get behind, but will we?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Leave it alone. Before we start worrying about the freedom of other nations we need to take steps domestically to reaffirm and re-establish our own.

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Need a leader with a pair or nuttin's gunna happen.

SO, nuttin's gunna happen.

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In time, this too shall pass.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-navy-chie ... 26132.html



This is crazy!

I would rather let the rest of NATO run this war, if there is to be one. We've carried the battle standard this far, we're weakened and weary. Go ahead Anders Fogh Rasmussen, what is the gameplan? Remember, the USA is protecting democracy and fighting many places already, use troops from the other nations for awhile.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Further, nothing good can come from putting our boots on their ground. That would start WWIII, and we would be the ones responsible. Negotiate, make sanctions, get our people and our dollars out of their conflict zone. Ship supplies to the Ukraine as we did to Afghanistan in the 80s? You all know how well that worked out.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I honestly hate to dogpile, but this is the cost of weak foreign policy leadership. Time and time again we threaten, nothing happens. Why would anyone be worried?

Further, the next few months are what matters. If Russia invades, and we kick them out of the G8 or whatever, who cares? They will have been there long enough for the pro-Russian forces to take control of the area, and then when Russia leaves, it's a second pro-Russian autonomous region. Then we declare victory and remove sanctions from Russia, and all is well.

Ugh.

Okay Arathain, what would you have us do?

What is a good outcome and how do we get there?

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

How about we let the rest of the world deal with it. Tired of being the world's policeman.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Screw Ukraine.

so we should just let russia have them? Its no big deal for a sovereign state to get invaded as long its not our sovereign state? I think that's what they said about Poland?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Russia can have all of Europe, who cares?

Putin is a benevolent dictator anyways. It could even be a good thing.

Basically. If you can't defend yourself, You maybe don't deserve to be sovereign.

Its not our business.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Russia is counting on the fact that the west doesn't collectively have the cojones to actually do a damn thing.

I'm not suggesting military actions, but the sanctions against Russia for this need to be near absolute. Isolate Russia as badly as they were isolated during the cold war. Cut them off completely from the EU and North American economies. Disable GPS functionality in Russian territory. Block all internet traffic into their country.

Russia provides nothing we need, but they damn well need what we have.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I'm okay with sanctions and things like what Taly is suggesting. I just don't want the USA to get physically involved, Ukraine is going to get too attached and then we're just gonna have to sneak out while they're asleep. No military presence please.

Out of curiosity for the folks suggesting military intervention...where are we supposed to get the money for that? The Venn diagram of "hawks" and "fiscal conservatives" is virtually a single circle, and we're already broke to boot.

The world is addicted to the US's forces as enforcers of sovereignty. We need to wean them off it, or start charging for our active presence or passive threat of involvement and role as peace keepers.

This also, of course, shows what a crock the UN is, when the security council can't actually do something it was obviously set up to do because one of the members with a permanent veto decides the system was built to let them get away with being an aggressor.

At the same time, I do think it's a good idea to not encourage Russia in its notion that devouring neighboring nations is the path to becoming relevant again on the world stage.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Actually, the Cold War was pretty good for our economy. The nuclear arms race spurred the growth of our job market. Beefing with Russia is much better than futzing around in the Middle East. If anything, we're totally going to pick a fight with Russia simply because we miss them so much.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Ooh. Also, cutting off GPS service to Russia would force them to launch new satellites of their own, which could prod us back into space!

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

exactly or rather they need to be shown playing nice is in their best interest. They aren't an islamic theocracy, I think they can be make to see the light if we show them we are serious.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I would be very hesitent to commit miltary forces. And it would only be under the conditions that Germany, France and Great Britain were there leading the charge.

Isolating them economically is fine with me, except that it would probably only provoke them further, and certainly wouldn't do anything to help Ukraine, unless of course the plan actually worked (unlikely, at least in the short term).

Same way we pay for whatever you like the government to do, but I'm not advocating military intervention.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

For the people advocating sanctions against Russia you should ask yourselves how many European's would freeze to death. Do some research.

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"I have seen our enemies at Munich. They are worms."