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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:29 pm 
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Amanar wrote:
You're looking way too closely at things. All the "socialist" nations of Western Europe are still highly individualistic. Rationalism is still a huge influence, even among religious people in the US. Freedom of speech doesn't have to be absolute to be a part of our political philosophy. And this idea that western philosophy is dead is just absurd.

Anyway, if you want to argue that the US has as much in common with China and Russia than with say, Germany and France, go ahead. But if you just don't like my random examples of what I consider "western philosophy," then you can just assume for my argument that by "western philosophy" I mean everything that we (Canada and the US) have in common with Western Europe.


You shouldn't assume that China and Russia have that much in common.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Amanar wrote:
Freedom of speech doesn't have to be absolute to be a part of our political philosophy.


There's nothing said about "absolute" in what I said.

In Canada and the USA you have free speech as long as the government doesn't dislike what you say enough to declare it criminal. Julian Assange has been hunted on various charges since wikileaks, and he didn't break any laws while doing it. Furthermore, he is not an American nor was he ever on American soil. Then there's various aspects of copyright and other ridiculous laws -- "Freedom of Speech" is dead.


Yes he did. He was a government employee, and what he did is illegal for a government employee to do. He gave up freedom of speech in that regardwhen he signed up. Furthermore, your desire for free movies does not make freedom of speech dead.

Edit: that was Edward Snowden, not Julian Assange. It's irrelevant whether Assange committed any crimes though; he's a foreign target as an intelligence thread.

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Last edited by Diamondeye on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
This invasion is definitely strange. Both sides clearly know how quickly things could go to hell, and are too close to one another to really be ready to kill the other.

It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.


Nah, its more like if Texas invaded Mexico. Texas and OK are too ideologically close to invade each other.


Texas and Mexico are business partners, someone needs to keep the drug war afloat.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:07 am 
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Hey DE: How do Texans feel about Oklahomans?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:15 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:

Yes he did. He was a government employee, and what he did is illegal for a government employee to do. He gave up freedom of speech in that regardwhen he signed up.


Julian Assange was never a government employee. His informant Bradley Manning was, but we're not talking about his informant.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:24 am 
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Talya wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:

Yes he did. He was a government employee, and what he did is illegal for a government employee to do. He gave up freedom of speech in that regardwhen he signed up.


Julian Assange was never a government employee. His informant Bradley Manning was, but we're not talking about his informant.


Sorry, you're right. I was thinking of Edward Snowden.

Julian Assange, however, is a foriegn national and if he gets pursued as an enemy of our country, it's up to his own country to defend him, if they want to. If they can't.. tough ****. Much like it's tough **** for Ukraine.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:26 am 
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Lenas wrote:
Müs wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
This invasion is definitely strange. Both sides clearly know how quickly things could go to hell, and are too close to one another to really be ready to kill the other.

It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.


Nah, its more like if Texas invaded Mexico. Texas and OK are too ideologically close to invade each other.


Texas and Mexico are business partners, someone needs to keep the drug war afloat.


Yeah, because the drug war is definitely good business for Texas and Mexico. :roll:

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Hey DE: How do Texans feel about Oklahomans?


Oklahoma is to Texas what Canada is to the US: Similar but with a lot less people, and in both cases those of us at the couthern tip don't concern ourselves much with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
This invasion is definitely strange. Both sides clearly know how quickly things could go to hell, and are too close to one another to really be ready to kill the other.

It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.


Nah, its more like if Texas invaded Mexico. Texas and OK are too ideologically close to invade each other.


Like Russian and Crimea. That was kind of my point.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:05 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:56 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:19 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Yeah, because the drug war is definitely good business for Texas and Mexico.


Yes, that's what I was getting at. Mexican cartels continue to make ungodly amounts of money selling a harmless drug while we keep putting non-violent offenders into jails run by guard unions and profits.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:50 pm 
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Harmless? /facepalm

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Yeah, because the drug war is definitely good business for Texas and Mexico.


Yes, that's what I was getting at. Mexican cartels continue to make ungodly amounts of money selling a harmless drug while we keep putting non-violent offenders into jails run by guard unions and profits.


If we want to completely distort the issues, sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Harmless? /facepalm


Most studies seem to indicate that, yes.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Harmless? /facepalm


Yes. Weed is relatively harmless.

Meth, Coke, and Heroin on the other hand... Not so much.

The drug cartels make most of their money from weed though.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Harmless? /facepalm


Most studies seem to indicate that, yes.

Which?

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A number of studies have linked chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large studies following users across time also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used, drug potency, and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at increased risk for later problems.

Associations have also been found between marijuana use and other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts among adolescents, and personality disturbances, including a lack of motivation to engage in typically rewarding activities. More research is still needed to confirm and better understand these linkages.

Marijuana use during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of neurobehavioral problems in babies. Because THC and other compounds in marijuana mimic the body’s own endocannabinoid chemicals, marijuana use by pregnant mothers may alter the developing endocannabinoid system in the brain of the fetus. Consequences for the child may include problems with attention, memory, and problem solving.

Additionally, because it seriously impairs judgment and motor coordination, marijuana contributes to risk of injury or death while driving a car. A recent analysis of data from several studies found that marijuana use more than doubles a driver’s risk of being in an accident. The combination of marijuana and alcohol is worse than either substance alone with respect to driving impairment.

Research shows marijuana may cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Heavy marijuana users generally report lower life satisfaction, poorer mental and physical health, more relationship problems, and less academic and career success compared to non-marijuana-using peers. For example, marijuana use is associated with a higher likelihood of dropping out of school. Several studies also associate workers' marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers' compensation claims, and job turnover.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/d ... /marijuana

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:08 pm 
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First I'll say that I don't think that referencing a government website is going to give you a very fair or balanced outlook. Secondly I'd point out that the majority of those claims are not qualified by any citation or proof of research. The wording of many of those claims are deliberately misleading.

My anecdotal evidence is that I've been a daily "user" for years and I've never been in better physical shape, my career is stable / on an upward trajectory and my personal relationships including a happy marriage are just fine.

Some links:
• No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose, it's physically impossible to inhale/ingest enough (1,500lbs within 15 minutes - source) (aside: LD50 of salt is 7-10oz)
• It has legitimate medical use and is irrefutably safer than other acceptable vices (tobacco, alcohol) when considering recreational use

• Regarding driving:
Quote:
There was a clear relationship between alcohol and culpability. … In contrast, there was no significant increase in culpability for cannabinoids alone. While a relatively large number of injured drivers tested positive for cannabinoids, culpability rates were no higher than those for the drug free group. This is consistent with other findings.

Patients testing positive for illicit drugs (marijuana, opiates, and cocaine), in the absence of alcohol, were in crashes very similar to those of patients with neither alcohol nor drugs. When other relevant variables were considered, these drugs were not associated with more severe crashes or greater injury.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
First I'll say that I don't think that referencing a government website is going to give you a very fair or balanced outlook. Secondly I'd point out that the majority of those claims are not qualified by any citation or proof of research. The wording of many of those claims are deliberately misleading.


Hilarious, given that pro-marijuana sites and information are at least as guilty in the other direction. I haven't known the NIH to deliberately publish false information.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:22 pm 
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At least all of the data is cited and backed up. I'm sure I can find more reputable sources but I'm at work so I don't have much time for sleuthing. The retarded classification of being a schedule one narcotic makes studying marijuana much more difficult than it should be.

The weedpress website talking about the LD50 is from a judge, the second link is from CNN and the third link is from an obviously biased source but I didn't quote any opinion text, just the reported findings.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
The retarded classification of being a schedule one narcotic makes studying marijuana much more difficult than it should be.

On that we completely agree.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
It has legitimate medical use






and in my non-medical opinion is irrefutably safer than other acceptable vices (tobacco, alcohol) when considering recreational use

FTFY

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:31 pm 
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If you're going to do **** like that you could at least take a few minutes to pretend like you can actually back up your ... "statement" with a link or two.

• Alcohol has an easily attainable toxicity level and many people die every year from overdose.
• Tobacco is responsible for over 480,000 deaths per year, many of which are types of cancer.
• Marijuana cannot be overdosed and has been linked in many studies to cancer remission.

I think it's safe to say which of the three is the least dangerous. Objectively.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:43 pm 
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If you believe pot is dangerous you haven't looked at the data.

It really is that simple.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:54 pm 
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On the other end of the scale of drug users from Lenas, is this asshat, who was high when he crossed a centerline and killed a pregnant woman.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:04 pm 
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And probably on other drugs. Or alcohol. Or ignorance.

People drive drunk all the time, and yet, alcohol is still legal and has far fewer redeeming qualities.

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