The Glade 4.0

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/26/opinion/greece-election-cartel-politics/

Looks like all that forced austerity didn't work so well for the EU. The Soviet Union couldn't do it, but this did. The Coalition of the Radical Left (Yes, that's their actual name) won 148/300 seats. Alexis Tsipras is a literal Communist, he was a member of the Communist Party of Greece before it merged with several other parties to become the Coalition of the Radical Left.

Here's something about the guy they elected as their new finance minister:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/27/greek-pm-alexis-tsipras-economist-yanis-varoufakis

I suspect he's going to find it quite a challenge to renegotiate the country's debt. This seems like a lovely opportunity to pop some popcorn, though.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I don't know, if this new leadership is really willing to go for broke they could threaten that unless they get debt reduction, they'll pull Greece out of the Eurozone. That would probably kill the Euro completely and leave every investor with nothing.

To be honest, I feel kind of bad for Greece. They actually had a government surplus of around 4.5% before the debt interest payments were counted, but to stay current on those would have required another 25% cut in government spending. They were already at 26% unemployment, worse than the US during the Great Depression, how was that ever going to work? I can see why the people get pissed off and elect some radical leftists when the EU tries to push something like that.

I don't think I losing a country that can't pay off its debt isn't going to kill the EU. That's a radical leftist pipe dream.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Yeah, this. So Greece takes its ball and goes home? Great. Now they're in control of their own currency, but still can't budget and can't get credit (because who's going to trust that they won't just inflate all their debt away when their society hasn't magically gotten more productive and profitable), while the Eurozone ends up being stronger after dropping the dead weight that wasn't being productive and was borrowing money it couldn't pay back.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Oh no.

Please don't take your shithole of death spiral away.

Germany really wants to keep bailing you idiots out, I mean what would they do with all that production and GDP?

It would save the Euro. Well it would go along way to saving it (not that that is necessarily a good thing).

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

You shouldn't feel bad for them. they got this way by having endless supplies of government jobs that do essentially no work. Even their priests are paid by the government.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Maybe they can form a new economic coalition with Zimbabwe.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Where can I sign up to buy those bonds!?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

There is the slight problem of the Bundesbank maybe going bankrupt as a result of its exposure to Greek debt. The balanced budget amendment they have will prevent the German government from borrowing money to bail out checking and savings accounts, so a lot of Germans are going to lose everything.

I mean what is the alternative here? Tell Greece they have to pay, and make them suffer thirty years of 30%+ unemployment and suffer what is effectively the same intergenerational debt bondsge that we refer to as slavery when it occurs in Asia? If you let the market work here they're a literal third world country. They set up some free trade zones with China, the wages in those are something like 3000 euros a year with no benefits or insurance.

Disband the government.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Then perhaps they should have objected more strongly to lending that money in the first place... or maybe the government could bail them out if it stopped spending so much on healthcare and other programs that Europe has spoiled itself with for decades. It's best of they get off the social programs now anyhow; n 10 years they'll need that money for defense and its best to free it up early.



It's not slavery even when it occurs in Asia; that's just colorful language.. and really is it suddenly a bigger problem just because Europeans might experience it?

Yes, Greece might have to put itself through this. So what if they're a third world country? It's their own fault. They should have quit voting themselves public largesse years ago. What might be best is for them to have a military dictatorship for a few years so they understand that when you use democracy to vote yourself more and more government money, even when other countries have to lend you money you can't pay back to keep that going, that's where you end up. Either that or make the entire country a German protectorate and don't allow Greeks the vote, public protest, or free press until the debt is resolved.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

World War 3 is what's best for all parties involved.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

The German protectorate part was facetious.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

You know, Greece is historically German land.

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The thing is Greece is basically acting out the same role as our subprime mortgage buyers did. Everyone knew they were spend-happy and vulnerable and rushed to take advantage. France and Germany flooded them with loans. Everyone in the EU ignored their poor financial situation in 1999 and let them in so they would have a place to stash their money. US banks got in on the action, creating financial instruments for Greece that would let it borrow even more while skirting reporting requirements. Just like the implicit Too Big to Fail guarantee did here, the belief that Germany and France would not let the euro fall spurred the massive lending over there. The average Greek citizen had no idea how bad things actually were, and were dissuaded from looking too closely by how well things seemed to be going.

Now you want to make debt slaves out of them? I suppose we shouldn't have bailed out any of our mortgages, repealed the laws that discharge the debt if the house is worth less than the balance on foreclosure, taken away their welfare, garnished their wages to fulfill the unpaid balance, and made them slave away for the rest of their lives just to repay these loans? Because that's what the EU is doing to Greece right now.

Madness?

THIS IS SPARTA!

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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Greece can always just say, "Screw you guys. We're not paying." They'll have serious trouble borrowing again for a decade or so, but it's not like anyone's going to invade to collect.

They'd be subject to economic sanctions which would make their already weak economic situation far more troubling.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Economic sanctions would spur their manufacturing and agricultural economies, though, right? If you can't trade with foreign powers, you better start self-sustaining.

Oh, look, jobs!

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Sure, there'd be some pain involved, but they wouldn't be the first country in modern times to decide it was cheaper to default than pay. As with Argentina, in a few years, everyone will be ready to let bygones be bygones and start throwing money at them again.

So is most of Europe. Fortunately - short lived.

historically, it's much more likely to be considered Italian land.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Historically it's Greek land. Parts of it could be considered Persian, but that part of Greece is now Turkey.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Were there flags involved? Because my history involves flags.

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