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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:58 am 
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I have a major issue that I wish to bring to light, not here necessarily, but I need to get my thoughts out.

It is an editorial type opinion, something that I see in everyday advertising and marketing that drives me crazy. I know that if it were made mention of, there would likely be a following who would see that what I am saying is true and that it should be adressed.

Regardless, I don't know how to make myself heard. Do I start a website? Write an editorial and contact a news outlet? Stand on a rooftop with a megaphone?

I have absolutely zero experience with something such as this, so any ideas would be appreciated.

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Last edited by Foamy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:02 am 
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depends on the message, the audience and the issue.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:07 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
depends on the message, the audience and the issue.


Unequal parental representation in advertising media.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:20 am 
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Foamy wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
depends on the message, the audience and the issue.


Unequal parental representation in advertising media.


I'd say feel free to start a blog or something, but expect to be ignored. Any company with a decent size budget advertising parental products is going to be using very targeted marketing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:24 am 
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Believe it or not, ask Elmo.

He does these kinds of things. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:38 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Foamy wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
depends on the message, the audience and the issue.


Unequal parental representation in advertising media.


I'd say feel free to start a blog or something, but expect to be ignored. Any company with a decent size budget advertising parental products is going to be using very targeted marketing.


You see, my problem with this is twofold:

1. Fathers should be sick of being set aside as not being the ones who purchase or use such products for their children.

2. Women should be sick of being thought of as the "mommy", women's equality and all that. If I said to a feminist that I think she should stay at home and take care of my children while I go out and work to make the money for the household, she would cry foul.

As I see it, both men and women have an equal stake in this. Fathers are being marginalized and mothers are being "told" that they are solely the caretakers of their children.

"Choosy Moms chose Jif" (credit given, though as Jif has changed their advertising recently)

Mommy, wow. I'm a big kid now. - Pullups training pants.

Oonagh and I were out shopping for a safety gate. Each and every one of them had a mother on the packaging holding or feeding the child, not a single father to be seen.

Additionally, there is a video section in Toys R Us titled "Mom and Baby"! Really, where are the "Daddy and Baby" videos? I sure as hell didn't see them.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:12 am 
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Consider Foamy that the segment of men that are involved as parents is minor compared to the single family households, almost always centered around the mother, due to various conditions such as deadbeat dads, divorce, "unknown" fathers, etc. Companies are not going to devote large amounts of limited retail space or advertising space to such a minority, and even groups/events that have traditionally been centered on father/offspring (usually son, but not always) are shifting towards "Parent" events to avoid alienating the large portion of children that lack one or the other, for whatever reason.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:54 am 
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Ladas wrote:
Consider Foamy that the segment of men that are involved as parents is minor compared to the single family households, almost always centered around the mother, due to various conditions such as deadbeat dads, divorce, "unknown" fathers, etc. Companies are not going to devote large amounts of limited retail space or advertising space to such a minority, and even groups/events that have traditionally been centered on father/offspring (usually son, but not always) are shifting towards "Parent" events to avoid alienating the large portion of children that lack one or the other, for whatever reason.
On the other hand, it's not like we haven't been collectively falling all over ourselves for years to ensure minority representation in media. I reference for you the Unusually Ethnically Balanced Social Gathering that you'll see in so many commercials. So, correspondingly, where's dad in the commercials?

Dad is all over the place in consumer electronics and appliance commercials, in satellite TV and cellular telephone commercials. Household products? Not so much. There's a huge amount of research in consumer spending habits, and for whatever reason, the data probably indicate that women are a) largely buying the products that you're not seeing dad in the commercials for, and b) dad in the commercial doesn't resonate with mom as much as mom in the commercial does. Like Ladas said, it's a numbers game, and for a substantial segment of goods, dad isn't good numbers.

As as aside, there's one thing you can narrow, I think - you can narrow your beef to the lack of father figures in a specific range of products. Maybe even do something really, really specific, like look at one product - say diapers. I think you'll find that men probably respond favorably to different sorts of messages than women do. Not to over-generalize, but maybe Huggies and Pampers commercials aimed at women have little pudgy babies crawling around in their little diapers, but the guys responded better to something like dad tossing baby up in the air in great late afternoon sunlight and it's more a "moment" commercial than a "product" one, and then they come up and say, you know, Kimberly-Clark or Proctor and Gamble or whoever, and flash some of their products up. I think 3M and GE do some like that.

Okay, spending too much time thinking about this right now - back to work :P Anyway I do think it's an idea that bears scrutiny, and I'm curious Foamy to hear what you think the situation, if properly addressed in your eyes, would look like.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:57 am 
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Foamy wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
depends on the message, the audience and the issue.


Unequal parental representation in advertising media.

Good luck with that. Men's rights groups have been trying to bring attention to that for at least a decade :)

Any time you bring it up people usually just shrug and say "who cares?".


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Timmit wrote:
Men's rights groups


There exists such a thing? Really?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:19 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Timmit wrote:
Men's rights groups


There exists such a thing? Really?

Why wouldn't there be?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:23 pm 
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I've never ever ever ever ever heard of one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Yes. They address many issues on the way the culture and laws are unfair to those of us who raise our children alone. Foamy's situation is even more confusing to a culture that sees fathers switching wage earner and domestic roles with the mothers as somehow wrong. It is a victory for the women's rights movement that receives ridicule from almost every angle.

More later, typing on the iPhone is annoying for fat thumbed me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Huh. Well I think its a good idea, but how come I have never heard of them before?
I can think of a lot of things that a men's rights group would be good for, including Foamy's advertising situation.
Like, how come women have the right to choose abortion and men have no say in it? I've heard some horror stories from men that were down on their knees begging for the life of their unborn child.
Men's rights groups. Huh. Its about time!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:32 pm 
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PS--Foamy have you thought about writing a letter to Pampers or Huggies?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:41 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
PS--Foamy have you thought about writing a letter to Pampers or Huggies?


Re: The video section in Toys R Us as explained above...

I sent a comment to them via the "Contact Us" section of their website.

My next step is to take note of any product I see advertised as such and do exactly as you say, send them a complaint or comment.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:38 pm 
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http://www.brandchannel.com/features_effect.asp?pf_id=318

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Traditionally, brands looking to sell domestic items, such as breakfast cereal or carpet stain protection, focused on the undisputed purchasing chief of the household: Mom. But gender roles are changing—at least in some advertising campaigns, where dear ol’ Dad stars as domestic deity. The message is that today’s man appears to be more involved in his home life, reflecting a slow-but-steady rise in purchasing power.
“Until recently, fathers were largely an untapped market,” says Vincent DiCaro, spokesman for the National Fatherhood Initiative, a non-profit organization that bestows yearly awards to brands using positive depictions of fatherhood in their ad campaigns. “When it comes to household purchasing decisions, corporations seem to be realizing that men are a lot more involved than they were 20 years ago.”

There is extensive data that supports a little more gender balance in the domestic climate. A 2003 National Study of the Changing Workforce conducted by the Families and Work Institute shows that working fathers are not only playing a more active role in childcare, but are also more involved in general domestic activities, which include shopping.

The study shows that, although the amount of time that working mothers in dual-earner couples spend on workdays caring for children was basically the same in 2002 as it was in 1977, fathers in dual-earner couples with children are spending almost twice the amount of time caring for and engaged in activities with their kids.

Also, more men are assuming the role of primary caregiver to their children. A 2005 US Census Bureau reports that only 98,000 men with children under 15 years old are in charge of the homestead, however the real number might be closer to two million, if one includes part-timers and freelancers who continue to generate some income while taking care of the kids at home.



With respect to men and purchasing decisions specifically, a 2002 report from Mediamark Research, Inc., shows that men were the principal purchaser of items like groceries and children's clothing in 21 percent of all US households. This represents a rather large increase from 1985, where just 13 percent of men did most of the shopping.
Given this evidence, it was only a matter of time before stateside marketers woke up to the fact that the work-a-day, hands-off daddy who sits at the dinner table with his nose buried in a newspaper is being replaced with a softer, gentler, more interactive version of a father who takes pleasure in nurturing his kids.

Thus, it would seem perfectly natural that brands would begin to realign their marketing efforts, creating ad campaigns that appeal to the twenty-first century dad and his new found purchasing power.

In recent years, many US television ads have gotten great response by featuring warm and fuzzy depictions of fatherhood. Cheerios, a General Mills breakfast cereal brand popular among both health conscious adults and babies new to food, featured a subtle yet powerful spot with a handsome dad clutching his barely-year-old baby as they both gazed at a paper and shared some Cheerios. The spot had such an emotional impact on viewers, that the National Fatherhood Initiative granted the company one of its annual fatherhood awards.

“Cheerios is able to strike an emotional chord with consumers because it is something that has been part of their families for years,” explains Joe Ens, marketing manager for Cheerios. “Featuring a father in the ad was simply a reflection of an everyday moment that occurs between a parent and their child, [which] includes Cheerios. We try to depict true moments that celebrate the role of parents as the ultimate nurturers.”

In the same token, Ens credits the act of nurturing itself with the success of the campaign (not the gender of the nurturer). “We don't differentiate fathers and mothers as audience segments,” says Ens. “Rather, we focus our message on nurturers, which has included mothers, fathers, even grandparents.”

DiCaro believes that, by featuring a father in an active role in commercials, brands will not only appeal strongly to men, but to women as well. “There are few images more powerful to women than a man engaging with little children,” says DiCaro. “The best way to raise awareness among women is to make a father look good.”

Ens agrees that showing the tender side of a father is a great way to get to the mother. “I don’t necessarily feel that men are making more of the purchasing decisions these days,” explains Ens. “Featuring dads in our advertising is not a function of who is making purchase decisions, but rather a reflection of everyday moments in American households. Seeing a dad interact with his child is a mother's daily perspective, so it appeals to both women and men.”



Another intriguing ad campaign starring a dad and a baby was created for the US-based carpet protection brand, Stainmaster. The spot showed a father at his wits’ end doing anything and everything he could to quiet his baby. In the end, it is the comfortable carpet that succeeds at this task.
When asked if the ad was created to appeal to men over women, Gary Johnston, brand manager for Stainmaster, explains that the choice was made to attract equal-opportunity attention.

“One reason that we looked at depicting a dad in the ad is that we thought it would be more engaging for both genders,” explains Johnston. “We thought it would appeal both to men and women to see a dad taking responsibility and rising to the challenge of caring for a baby, because in reality, he usually does.”

This strategy hit the mark for Stainmaster. Johnston says the ad was very well received, and scored high marks in consumer recall.

“I think consumers are looking at their homes as sanctuaries,” says Johnston. “And investing in their homes is both a male and female concern. Men and women are certainly making more joint purchasing decisions than they were in the past.”

Although more recent studies confirming dad’s bulkier purchasing muscles are scarce, savvy marketers looking to score sales for their domestic products seem to know one thing for sure: the best way to a man’s (and woman’s) heart, is through his offspring.



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Also, here is something you can get involved in that is already in progress...no need to re-invent the wheel. Join the National Fatherhood Initiative: http://www.fatherhood.org/

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
You see, my problem with this is twofold:

1. Fathers should be sick of being set aside as not being the ones who purchase or use such products for their children.

2. Women should be sick of being thought of as the "mommy", women's equality and all that. If I said to a feminist that I think she should stay at home and take care of my children while I go out and work to make the money for the household, she would cry foul.

As I see it, both men and women have an equal stake in this. Fathers are being marginalized and mothers are being "told" that they are solely the caretakers of their children.

"Choosy Moms chose Jif" (credit given, though as Jif has changed their advertising recently)

Mommy, wow. I'm a big kid now. - Pullups training pants.

Oonagh and I were out shopping for a safety gate. Each and every one of them had a mother on the packaging holding or feeding the child, not a single father to be seen.

Additionally, there is a video section in Toys R Us titled "Mom and Baby"! Really, where are the "Daddy and Baby" videos? I sure as hell didn't see them.


I disagree with this completely.

People should stop b***ing about what society expects of them. Just do what you feel is needed from you and stop being afraid to be pigeonholed into something you're afraid to be good at because people say you're supposed to.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Perhaps the reason is that Dad's are less likely to be influenced by such advertising. I know when I go shopping for household goods I am not swayed by Tide's advertising because it is noticeably more expensive than... well than any other brand of detergent out there (damn you P&G!). I am not saying women are more gullible, but perhaps more brand conscious than an average male.

Same deal with baby-related goods and services. The bulk of the people I know who research horsepower, torque, engine size, etc are guys (not all) so it makes more sense for car magazines to target men. Similarly I have never met a guy who researched what carseat was right for his infant when combo'd with his car but women who have.

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Hopwin wrote:
Similarly I have never met a guy who researched what carseat was right for his infant when combo'd with his car but women who have.


That is odd. I thought all men did that... Every father I know here in town went through and did the research showing which carseats did the best for the infant and then brought mom a list and went "pick one"

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:39 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Similarly I have never met a guy who researched what carseat was right for his infant when combo'd with his car but women who have.


That is odd. I thought all men did that... Every father I know here in town went through and did the research showing which carseats did the best for the infant and then brought mom a list and went "pick one"

As I tried to convey above, ymmv. Personally that is the kind of thing I would do but I am a superdork and enjoy over-researching everything :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:04 pm 
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First decide EXACTLY what your problem is and EXACTLY how you will go about addressing it.

Until you know your focus don't start generating attention you aren't ready for.

When you're ready - talk to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:59 pm 
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I'll go with the talk to Elmarnieh strategy. Carry your saltshaker, but you may not need it.

Soapboxes are wonderful, when you can find an audience.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:44 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
Huh. Well I think its a good idea, but how come I have never heard of them before?
I can think of a lot of things that a men's rights group would be good for, including Foamy's advertising situation.
Like, how come women have the right to choose abortion and men have no say in it? I've heard some horror stories from men that were down on their knees begging for the life of their unborn child.
Men's rights groups. Huh. Its about time!

They've been around for at least a decade, they just don't get any attention because the media (and probably society as a whole) believes in the "men are evil oppressors, women are victims of men's power" paradigm.

The right to have a say in whether a child is aborted, paternity fraud, the bias against men in family/divorce court (especially in regards to child custody), the horrible stereotypes about men/fathers in ads/entertainment, etc are all issues they try (and pretty much fail) to get people to pay attention to.


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