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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:28 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581877,00.html

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The city's Department of Health and Mental Hygiene spent $32,000 of tax money on 70,000 copies that offer information on how to prepare drugs carefully and care for veins to avoid infection.

"This is a tremendous misuse of city funds, and I'm going to see what I can do to stop it," Democratic New York City Council member Peter Vallone Jr. told the New York Post. "It's sick."

And, it's not just taxpayers who are angry.

The state's top official with the Drug Enforcement Administration calls the "Take Charge Take Care" guide a "step-by-step instruction on how to inject a poison."

DEA special agent-in-charge John Gilbride says the handout is disturbing.

"It concerns me that the city would produce a how-to on using drugs," Gilbride told the Post. "Heroin is extremely potent. You may only get the chance to use it once. To suggest there is a method of using that alleviates the dangers, that's very disturbing."

The 16-page booklet features seven comics-like illustrations and offers such advice as "Warm your body (jump up and down) to show your veins," and "Find the vein before you try to inject."

A health official says the goal is to promote health and save lives. Assistant Commissioner Daliah Heller says instructions on how to perform injections were included because there's "a less harmful way to inject."

The illustrated guidebook offers information on HIV testing and the dangers of sharing needles.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


**** waste of tax payer dollars. I support the individuals right to inject anything into themselves and die of the process. Maybe they can start offering safe suicide guides? How to rape and care for your victims?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:57 am 
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Reminds me of when Mexico printed the "How to Sneak into the USA" pamphlets, lol.

Next up, How to punch a "Guidette"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:25 am 
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WOuld you prefer they develop septicemia and run up half-million dollar hospital bills that you have to pay for instead?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:30 am 
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Hmm, I work in this field. While I agree that these pamphlets are mostly a waste of time and money for the majority of fools that use illicit, especially injectable, drugs - they do serve a purpose. Some people actually read and learn from them. Usually there is a set of contact information for people who want to get help, someone they can call, somewhere they can go. This is the important part of the pamphlet.

You would be surprised how many people go through a young and stupid phase. I've known, heck where I work there are several people who were at one time heroin users or addicts. One of the Directors and her Chief Deputy were both heroin addicts in their youth. They got better, went on to have productive lives, both have recently retired.

Painting all heroin users as worthless pieces of crap not worth helping, that is short term egotistical ranting. You would be surprised how many of your favorite musicians were heroin users at one time or another. It seems to run rampant in the music world, and not just rock/punk/rap bad boy music.

Xeq is right. The pamphlets, all 70,000 of them, cost less than one case of septicemia on the public dole. All in all they are a money saver, not a worthless expense for the doomed and damned.

People get stupid, people have problems, people sometimes need help crawling back to a real life. The anger you are displaying here indicates you haven't had one of those problems. Bully for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:34 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
WOuld you prefer they develop septicemia and run up half-million dollar hospital bills that you have to pay for instead?


I'd prefer we didn't have a society that forced me to pay for their life choices, if we're talking about ideal situations.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:40 am 
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These health and safety types have it all wrong. The key to safely shooting heroin is to always draw your wash out of a fresh car battery, thus ensuring a sterile and hygienic experience.

Duh, everyone knows that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:42 am 
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What about in the real world DFK! You don't get Ideal this side of the pearly gate.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:19 am 
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I am speaking from a personal experience. I do work in a hospital and often enough valuable hospital space is taken up by those who have chosen to injure themselves in this fashion. Shooting Heroin, snorting cocaine, drinking rubbing alcohol (and regular). They come in and get the best care we can provide, at the tax payers expense.

I support their right to lead the existence they want, and I reserve to hold my opinion I wish they would suffer the full consequences of it. Do I give them less care? No, so please no one accuse me otherwise. But nothing in my contract or anything else says I can not hope for a different outcome. Maybe I see too many people taken away early by circumstances beyond their control (cancers mostly) to watch others throw their lives away, and that is what these people have done.

Sorry if it's rambling, night shift makes it go oddly.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:24 am 
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Micheal wrote:
What about in the real world DFK! You don't get Ideal this side of the pearly gate.


In the real world? Create an EMTALA exception for drug abusers.

Done.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:13 pm 
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I don't see any real likelyhood that this pamphlet will seriously produce any benefit. Yes, it might encourage someone to get help, or to take a precaution that might protect them from illness or death. It also might be used by a drug dealer to convince someone who otherwise would not have tried heroin that it's perfectly safe. "See? Just follow these steps and you'll be ok! Even the government says so!"

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I don't see any real likelyhood that this pamphlet will seriously produce any benefit. Yes, it might encourage someone to get help, or to take a precaution that might protect them from illness or death. It also might be used by a drug dealer to convince someone who otherwise would not have tried heroin that it's perfectly safe. "See? Just follow these steps and you'll be ok! Even the government says so!"


This.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:23 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I don't see any real likelyhood that this pamphlet will seriously produce any benefit. Yes, it might encourage someone to get help, or to take a precaution that might protect them from illness or death. It also might be used by a drug dealer to convince someone who otherwise would not have tried heroin that it's perfectly safe. "See? Just follow these steps and you'll be ok! Even the government says so!"


So basically you're saying that Michael doesn't know what he's talking about?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:28 pm 
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I can see how you could get that impression, Aizle, if you didn't read what DE wrote.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:33 pm 
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I not only read what he posted, but I actually comprehended it too.

If perhaps DE had read and understood Michael's post, he'd have caught the part where pamphlets like this actually SAVE tax payer dollars.

Most normal people would call that a "benefit".


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:38 pm 
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You are taking that they do save money for granted as a given.

DE brought up some good points - it could be considered de-facto government sanctioning for intravenous drug use.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:40 pm 
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I'm more concerned with how this would provide incentive and information that could sway the non-user or the on-the-fence-potential-new user over to the dark side.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Usually, cookies are more effective than pamphlets. Except Oreos. Oreos are are to cookies like soda is to all soft drinks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
I not only read what he posted, but I actually comprehended it too.

If perhaps DE had read and understood Michael's post, he'd have caught the part where pamphlets like this actually SAVE tax payer dollars.

Most normal people would call that a "benefit".



Methinks DE has read and understood Micheal's post, and disagreed. Perhaps DE believes that these pamphlets could make it that much more easy for someone to pick up a needle, thereby perpetuating the use of the drug, the services of a dealer, the violence and degradation that entails, and the hundreds of man hours of police and emergency workers that will be required to "service" those involved in the drug use and trade and that most people would call that a detriment...but we don't know that because he didn't write that. Just like he didn't write that Micheal "doesn't know what he's talking about".

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:53 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
You are taking that they do save money for granted as a given.


Actually, I'm trusting that Michael knows what he's talking about as I both respect his integrity and his claim of working in this field.

Rafael wrote:
DE brought up some good points - it could be considered de-facto government sanctioning for intravenous drug use.


I supose you could make that argument, although I would need to actually see the pamphlet myself to decide. I seriously doubt that some government pamphlet is going to convince someone that doing drugs is safe and good.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Actually, I'm trusting that Michael knows what he's talking about as I both respect his integrity and his claim of working in this field.


That has nothing to do with being discontent with what Michael says. He brought up some points. DE brought up some adjacent points. Nothing of what was said by anyone qualifies to saying "[So basically you're saying that] Michael doesn't know what he's talking about?"

You're right, basically. Basically, that was a grossly reductive oversimplification bordering on outright misrepresentation.

Aizle wrote:
Rafael wrote:
DE brought up some good points - it could be considered de-facto government sanctioning for intravenous drug use.


I supose you could make that argument, although I would need to actually see the pamphlet myself to decide. I seriously doubt that some government pamphlet is going to convince someone that doing drugs is safe and good.


Nice strawman. Again, you are being grossly over-reductive. No one said the pamphlet is going to convince anyone it is "safe and good", rather that the pamphlet could be interpreted as leniency that drug use which has health consequences can be mitigated by using ER.

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Last edited by DFK! on Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fixed yo' borked quote tags


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:32 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
WOuld you prefer they develop septicemia and run up half-million dollar hospital bills that you have to pay for instead?


I'd prefer we didn't have a society that forced me to pay for their life choices, if we're talking about ideal situations.


The society leads them to use drugs. Ideally these drugs would simply be unavailable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:35 pm 
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1. Put the heroin on a stable platform.
2. Check behind the target to make sure you've got a good berm.
3. Get into position and make sure the range is clear.
4. Aim, fire.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Education is always a good thing.
In order to justify the expenditure of tax dollars to teach people the proper method to safely inject heroin into the blood stream, we would first need to remove heroin from the Type 1 drug list.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Either way we end up paying for these assholes.

Either they get Septicemia and we let them die, or they burn out their bodies and end up in the hospital anyway.

I say **** them, if we have to pay either way, hospice care for a dying heroine addict is probably cheaper than keeping the dumb *** alive.

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