The Glade 4.0

You know, academically, I understand, and even agree with the statement that I used as the subject for this thread.

I'm no Animal-Rights PETA-wacko. Nature is one big competition, and different species are not morally obligated to give a **** about the individuals lower than them on the food chain. I do struggle not to roll my eyes when some coworker spends 10% of his yearly salary on some surgical procedure for their dog or cat... because I like to think I'm pragmatic about things.

We don't grieve, however, because of the overall importance of the one who has died to the rest of your species. You know this because Steve Jobs dying didn't affect you much, but your grandmother dying probably did. We grieve because of the relationship we had with the deceased. And the simple fact is, we look at our pets as friends and family. Oh, we usually don't form a bond as close as we do with children (but even that's not universal), but they cease to be "just an animal" very shortly after we start to bond with them. This shortcircuits pragmatism and logic in ways that I really wish they didn't.

I've cried at least once every day since Sunday. "He was just a bird." My little green-cheeked Pyrrhura molinae we called Simon was as smart as any dog. He loved people - we were his flock. My son was his favorite - they've been best of friends for half my son's life. You wouldn't believe how cuddly and affectionate a parrot can be with people unless you've owned one. It was an accident - he wasn't old yet. This species can live twenty or more years. I just can't believe he's gone. Every little thing I do, my brain ties it in to how Simon would react.

I miss him so much.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

They're never just animals.

I'm so sorry

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Holy shitsnacks!

Very sorry Taly

Sorry to hear this, Taly. Sounds like a great bird and very meaningful to your family. You have my condolences.

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This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge

My heart goes out to you, Taly. Like Müs said, they're never "just" animals.

I'm sorry Taly. Pets are our special friends, and it always sucks to lose them, more than we ever expect it to.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I am so sorry Taly. I know how you feel as I have lost many "family members" over the years. I had parakeets as a young girl, as well as cats and dogs all my life. It hurts to lose them. They have a special place in our hearts which feels empty when they are gone.

My condolences to you and your son on your loss.

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"Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one!"~ Matthew Quigley

"nothing like a little meow in bed at night" ~ Bruskey

"I gotta float my stick same as you" Hondo Lane

"Fill your hand you son of a *****!"

I'm sorry Taly. I know how you feel.

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Raell Kromwell

Green Cheeked Conure sociability shown in this video (not my video).




Yesterday was the first day I didn't get weepy thinking about the little guy.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Sorry Hang in there.

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I have cuddled my GCC in sympathy. Birds have so much personality. I understand completely how you feel, and offer my condolences.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

Awww. I didn't know you have a GCC. Cuddle them again for me.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

On the nature of grief:

Now that thoughts of my little Simon no longer cause my eyes to mist over, but instead just turn to melancholy, nostalgic sadness, I can write this without making a fool of myself at work.

It occurred to me over the last two weeks how odd it was that Simon's death hit me harder than the death of my grandmother a few years ago. This doesn't gel with the "we grieve based on the relationship." I was close to my grandmother. She was a big part of my life growing up.

She was 98 years old when she died, however. She'd lost her mobility 5 years earlier, and had to be put in a retirement home where they had nurses to care for her. I visited her regularly, all of my family did. Played Scrabble (oh, how she'd have loved Words with Friends if electronic devices hadn't terrified her) every time. She usually won. And when she died, it was of congestive heart failure, it took several days where we came to visit her every day.

I was sad. There was definitely grief. But it was a different kind of grief...because most of it was already done. I'd grieved constantly, just a little trickle of grief, every day since I'd moved away from home, and then as age turned so many of the things we'd used to do together into mere memories. For the last five years of her life, that's essentially what she was - a living memory; a speaking reminder of different times lost long ago.

When you lose a pet, or worse yet, an immediate family member, you haven't lost a memory. You've lost future potential for making more memories with them. My grandmother and I were close, but in my heart I already knew there were no new memories to be made long before she died. The grieving had begun years earlier. Her death only allowed it to finish.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

The newest member of the family, ~8 months old. We also have a sun conure, cockatiel, and 2 budgies. And 3 cats who are terrified of the birds.

GCC has been cuddled for you.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

And regarding the next post, grief hits at odd times. My grandmother passed away a few years ago, and it sometimes sneaks up on me. Especially around the holidays when I used to visit her.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

My grandpa died 12 years ago, and I still occasionally get moments of this.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Oooooh... we're considering getting a Sun Conure to "replace" our GCC. You can't ever replace the individual pet, just the pet's place in the home. I'd like a different looking conure so people don't unfairly associate the new bird with Simon in their minds, but also generally similarly tempered.

How do you find the noise difference between the two birds? I understand Suns can be quite a lot louder than GCCs. (But then I've heard GCCs are more nippy than Suns, and biting was a problem for Simon.)

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

GCCs are terriers - they think they are far bigger birds than they are, and they have the attitude to go with it.
SCs are the Bestest Birds Ever, and they want you to know it at all times.

Our SC (Phoenix) is far louder than the GCC. We are loudly greeted every time we enter the room with the birds. They screech about the same amount, but the volume and tone are different. You have to be prepared for a fairly loud, fairly needy bird with respect to interaction time.



and



Phoenix can be a bit nippy when you try to pick her up when she doesn't want to go, or you try to stop her from chewing something (I'm trying to train her out of it), but overall she is far less nippy than the GCC (fewer instances of nipping for no apparent reason), but is a bit more territorial with respect to her cage. My daughter is 11, and handles both.

She can be cuddly (she hangs out in my shirt with her head poking out and likes when I give her scritches). She loves to go in the shower. Your shirts will get holes, as she chews all the things. (I try to have stuff around she can safely chew on instead.) Phoenix is fairly quiet when held (unless she wants to go to someone else) and is a good shoulder bird. She can be quiet for some periods of time, and puts herself to bed at nightfall (and up early!), but if loud birds grate on you or your family members, I don't recommend one.

Males are more prone to bonding to only one person. We're pretty sure Phoenix is female based on behavior, but I haven't gotten her sexed. I suggest going with a breeder who can tell you the sex, and where you can handle/hear one or more before you make up your mind. (We got ours at the pet store instead of the breeder, but only because the birds clearly chose us and gave us no choice. Ordinarily, I'd want to get them through a breeder or rescue.)

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

Simon was absolutely ridiculous when it came to both the most innocuous things that terrified him, or the scariest things that did not. Any type of long stick would send him into hysterics -- carry a broom past his cage and there'd be feathers everywhere. But we left the cage open once when my sister brought her german shepherd over...the dog went over to sniff the bird cage, and the bird came right out and bit the dog so hard on the nose the dog yelped and never went near the cage again. (Stupid bird.)


Simon had a fair bit of this behavior, too.



Yeah, Phoenix sounds a lot like Simon did, just...as I suspected, probably louder. Simon always greeted us with his gravelly little, "Pretty bird!" or "What's up!"



My kids have had me watch every single conure on Youtube ever in the last two weeks.



This is okay. Simon was SO cuddly, but would randomly bite, hard. Not frequently, but more than enough.


...yup.



Right in the water? Simon liked to sit on the shower wall while we showered, but didn't want to get wet.


Yeah, same with Simon.



Sounds very similar to Simon, again. Just louder.



That's interesting about the different behavior for males. This presents a conundrum, now. I've been trying to find a male because I lost a bird to egg binding once, but the bonding to only one person is a pain. Hmm.

(And we already have a breeder nearby that we've visited to look at them.)

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Kestrel (GCC) and Phoenix like to go after the cats if they get too close. Or, if the cat is just lying there on the bed, minding its own business... Unfortunately, the conures attack each other if they get too close. Or the unlucky human in the way. So we handle them both in the same general area, but we monitor closely and never leave them unattended when they are both out.



Kestrel gives us a "Pretty bird". Phoenix greets with "How are you?" SC's don't generally talk well.



Yup, Kestrel does this.


...yup.



Both our SC and GCC love my vessel sink (it's like a waterfall) and Phoenix goes right in the shower. We try to avoid getting her head under the water, though, and watch the temperature. If it's sunny out, she wants a bath or shower. Kestrel was a little hesitant about the sink at first, but now enjoys it.



It's a general trait, so may not be an issue. It also could just be a myth. Sounds like you know your way around birds, and how to socialize them.



...and my GCC is currently cleaning my ears, apparently....

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

It was a 3 consecutive budgies as a kid.

When I was first married (20 years ago) I had a cockatiel. We gave him away to a young boy in our apartment building who was obsessed with him. (with his mom's permission.)

We got our GCC 7 years ago (he was over a year old when we got him, though.)

I've probably had a bird of some kind as a pet for over half my life. I've never owned a Sun Conure, though.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I worked at a avian pet store for a while back in the early 80's when I lived on Colorado Springs.

I inherited a problematic African Gray from the owner. He was just mean, and mostly untameable (at least according to the store owner).

He had sold the bird three times, only to have the unhappy customer return him due to severe biting, and general bad behavior.

I kept him for as long as I lived there in the springs, and managed to not get bit. He didn't really like physical attention much, but loved to be talked to.

As most grays are, he was an excellent mimic. I remember waking up several nights in a row thinking I had a dripping faucet. I didn't. What I had was a bird that had learned to mimic that sound. (sooooo annoying :p ). He also enjoyed slinging his food across the room as much as he did eating it. I suspect he did this because he enjoyed watching me clean up the mess.

I had a cockatiel for a while too, but had to give him away when I went overseas.

All of this talk about birds has me wanting to re-visit having one as a pet.

Big parrots are ... problematic as pets. It's not that they can't be good pets, it's that most people can't be good companions for one. I would never take on such a challenge.

Smaller parrots are easier, although the personality traits are similar. A lot of bird owners will not-so-jokingly suggest that they are owned by a parrot, rather than the other way around.


You know how people will occasionally say their dog thinks it's human?

Parrots never think they are human, but they may come to accept that you're a bird. They can adopt you as their flock, and when they do, don't anybody dare try to keep them away from you. Parrots are VERY affectionate and possessive of their flocks. They do not think like dogs, though. This isn't because they are less intelligent - most parrots are easily the match for the smartest dogs, when it comes to brainpower. It's because they are still wild.

Think about it - humans didn't domesticate the dog. A human-like primate that lived over a million years ago and sired the apes that would later give rise to Homo sapiens domesticated the dog. Cats were domesticated much later, but still long before we had historical records to prove it. We've only been domesticating parrots for a few hundred years. And really, we're only successful in that a good parrot owner has a damn happy parrot. Yes, they can come to accept us and they don't feel "captive."

I love parrots. I wish I thought I could be an appropriate owner for a big Macaw or African Grey, but I know I wouldn't. So I'll settle for a smaller parrot. (And for encouragement for you men considering a bird as a pet, there's always the prospect of having one of the last surviving species of dinosaurs sitting on your shoulder.)

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

That store I worked in had a Yellow Shouldered Green Winged Amazon Parrot mascot that sat on a perch at the checkout counter.

The bird was exceptionally friendly and talkative (by far the best salesperson on the staff). Always said "Hellow" when people came in.. waved goodbye when they left. Would shake hands (fingers), loved to be petted, and talked to. And the thing smelled like ... flowers (or fruit maybe) due to it's diet.

One day a couple of older ladies (they seemed old to me at the time.. late 50's early 60's) were at the counter making a small purchase. One of them said something, and the other lady giggled. Then.. the bird "giggled", then both ladies giggled more, and the bird giggled more, and for the next five minutes there were a half a dozen people standing around that checkout counter laughing uncontrollably.

It was absolutely hilarious.

Ahh, I miss that place...

Some parrots exude an odor like flowers when they are happy.

My ex once worked at a pet store. The resident macaw only liked the owner and me (birds just like me), and the smaller green Amazons used to chase my ex around the store and bite his ankles. They also dismantled every pet carrier up on the top shelves, and mimicked crying children. Good times.

I've had birds almost continuously since I was 9.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?