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 Post subject: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:53 pm 
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OMFG SHE'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT!!!

Is what you'd think if you look in the mainstream media today. Its amusing to me that they're trying to turn a .3% win into a Reaganesque landslide.

Also, Cruz beats Trump. Or whatever. One sucks and the other probably isn't eligible for the presidency.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:20 pm 
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The Iowa results are actually pretty scary. Bernie Sanders will likely be the Democratic nominee and our next President. Trump, regardless of his performance in the Primaries, will not receive the Republican nomination. It's also important to note that the Iowa Caucuses only represent a small amount of Iowa's delegates for either side. Full delegations won't be established for several more weeks. But, Bernie Sanders getting that close to Hillary, especially given her ground game in the state, is a problem. He's going to beat her in New Hampshire and ride some momentum into the South.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:23 pm 
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I have a feeling she's going to get crushed in NH.

I dunno about the south though. Bernie doesn't poll well with "ethnicities".

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Müs wrote:
I have a feeling she's going to get crushed in NH.

I dunno about the south though. Bernie doesn't poll well with "ethnicities".
I think you're going to be surprised by the grass roots game Sanders is playing in the South. He's got a pretty shrewd machine setup and has been taking this far more seriously than the mainstream coverage wants to admit. All I know is that Bernie Sanders is the very last person, of all the people with their names in the hat, that we want as President. He's a fringe lunatic from the word go.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:36 pm 
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I am generally of the opinion that Trump and Cruz... any republican really would be FAR more harmful.

But then I'm an agnostic that likes my civil rights. So YMMV.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:20 pm 
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go bernie


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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:31 pm 
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The Democratic Party has enjoyed having a puppet for the past eight years. They absolutely will not give Bernie the nomination. He has opinions and things he hopes to accomplish. By comparison, the entirety of Hillary's platform is first female president. She will do anything and everything the party leaders want with no questions asked. You are seeing their preference for Hillary now with the grand announcement of her victory.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:20 pm 
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Bernie Sanders has a 50/50 shot of winning the nomination and about a 5% chance of winning the general election. His only chance against any of the Republicans is some sort of scandal after the conventions.

The Republicans will nominate whoever wins the primaries. The only way the Party elite can hand it to someone other than Trump is for either Cruz or Rubio to outright beat him, or be in a tie of the sort Sanders and Clinton are in with Iowa.

The irony is that either Trump or Sanders actually winning is likely to be a non-Presidency as they will spend 4 years learning that Congress simply won't go along with their outlandish proposals. Sanders's proposals are mostly economically impossible and Trump's are in some cases physically impossible. his "deport them all" and "wall" are more like metaphors than anything else; neither one is, as a practical matter, something that can actually be done. Deporting 12 million people simply cannot be done; that's a bigger force than we invaded Normandy with.

He will not, however, be denied the nomination if he legitimately wins it without some close tie. If the Republican party does that, it will be the last Presidential election the Republican party participates in; it will be replaced by some new right-of-center party that might end up being very similar but will result in a lot of very important people being replaced by up and comers that would very much like to take their jobs.

The idea that votes and voters don't matter is completely false because voters only don't matter as long as they think they matter. Once you rip the clothes off the Emperor in public, you cannot go back. Trump is where he is because the voters do matter and all the paniced efforts of the left, the press, and the GOP elders have utterly failed. That is because they are not actually very good at politics; they can only play it as long as the "rules" they imagine to exist are followed. They are not doing well against Trump because he is not running for President and is not conducting a political campaign.

He is MARKETING himself for President and conducting a MARKETING campaing. That's why he lacks specifics and plans - he's not trying to policy-wonk his way to victory; he's selling a product. You don't see academic discussions of proucts on ads, you see snappy slogans. Essentially he's taken the Obama "hope and change" and "yes, we can" strategy and turned it Up To 11.

His major error was failing to participate in the last debate, but that's unlikely to hurt him much from here on - it will be forgotten. The simple fact is that too much of the political class has convinced itself that certain people don't matter because they talk funny or don't think the right things, without considering just how many of those people there are - while at the same time, attempting to extend special privileges to other types of people that talk funny and calling the first group "racists" for objecting.

This country does not work like that. You cannot control the political system from behind the scenes without allowing the people to think they are still in control. Both parties have gotten far too reckless in their attempts to limit what's acceptable in political debate for their voters to accept, and they have created Trump and Cruz and Sanders in the process.

As for being an "atheist that likes civil rights, that sort of thing has created Trump. He represents people that are tired of listening to complaints about victimhood that doesn't exist.

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The Democratic Party has enjoyed having a puppet for the past eight years. They absolutely will not give Bernie the nomination. He has opinions and things he hopes to accomplish. By comparison, the entirety of Hillary's platform is first female president. She will do anything and everything the party leaders want with no questions asked. You are seeing their preference for Hillary now with the grand announcement of her victory.


If Bernie has a convincing lead going into the convention, he will get it or the party will dissolve into chaos and throw the election to the Republican nominee in the process. No other outcomes are possible.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:28 pm 
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Khross wrote:
The Iowa results are actually pretty scary. Bernie Sanders will likely be the Democratic nominee and our next President. Trump, regardless of his performance in the Primaries, will not receive the Republican nomination. It's also important to note that the Iowa Caucuses only represent a small amount of Iowa's delegates for either side. Full delegations won't be established for several more weeks. But, Bernie Sanders getting that close to Hillary, especially given her ground game in the state, is a problem. He's going to beat her in New Hampshire and ride some momentum into the South.


Not that I see any flaw in your reasoning, and unfortunately the glade history doesn't go back far enough, but I distinctly remember you saying Obama had absolutely zero chance of upstaging Hillary in the democratic primaries in 2008.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:40 pm 
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Haha, yeah. Khross' campaign predictions are pretty terrible.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:07 pm 
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He is the Punxsatawney Phil of the Election Cycle. :)

If he sees his shadow, we'll have 4 more years of the incumbent party.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:56 pm 
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Bernie Sanders wants free college education for everyone. Want to get that $200,000 Women's Studies degree you've always dreamed of? According to Sanders, the taxpayers should cover that for you. In fact, you have a "right" to get that Women's Studies degree for free, and how dare anyone deny you that right.

Why not just make everything free? Free healthcare, free gas, free food, free housing, free education, free beer. What could possibly go wrong? /s


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:02 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Bernie Sanders wants free college education for everyone. Want to get that $200,000 Women's Studies degree you've always dreamed of? According to Sanders, the taxpayers should cover that for you.

Why not just make everything free? Free healthcare, free gas, free food, free housing, free beer. What could possibly go wrong? /s


Educating the populace is a good thing. Ensuring the populace is healthy is also a good thing. Both of these things make our country stronger.

Apparently the only thing our tax dollars are really good for anymore is killing brown people overseas. Personally, I'm tired of that. I'm tired of over 50% of our tax revenue being spent on a military that the rest of the world is using so they can make sure their citizens are educated and healthy.

Why should we continue to pay for Europe's security when they can't be bothered to pay for it themselves?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:15 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Apparently the only thing our tax dollars are really good for anymore is killing brown people overseas. Personally, I'm tired of that. I'm tired of over 50% of our tax revenue being spent on a military that the rest of the world is using so they can make sure their citizens are educated and healthy.

Why should we continue to pay for Europe's security when they can't be bothered to pay for it themselves?


I agree, but just give the money back to the people instead of creating more government programs to spend it on.

I guess it depends on your view of the ideal country to live in. Bernie's ideal country has a very large government that is like a parent to everyone in need, and exists to provide for them. I'd rather have a very small government, where people are responsible for their own well-being. Even if the net result is that people are worse off (which I doubt would happen), I'd still prefer it.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
I guess it depends on your view of the ideal country to live in. Bernie's ideal country has a very large government that is like a parent to everyone in need, and exists to provide for them. I'd rather have a very small government, where people are responsible for their own well-being. Even if the net result is that people are worse off (which I doubt would happen), I'd still prefer it.


In this country? The people would definitely be worse off. That money would just go into the pockets of the rich anyway. Cause that's what we need, wealthier top end, and poorer middle class on down. People that can't afford medical care or education. You're advocating the creation of a permanent underclass.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:35 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
I guess it depends on your view of the ideal country to live in. Bernie's ideal country has a very large government that is like a parent to everyone in need, and exists to provide for them. I'd rather have a very small government, where people are responsible for their own well-being. Even if the net result is that people are worse off (which I doubt would happen), I'd still prefer it.


In this country? The people would definitely be worse off. That money would just go into the pockets of the rich anyway. Cause that's what we need, wealthier top end, and poorer middle class on down. People that can't afford medical care or education. You're advocating the creation of a permanent underclass.


I don't think it works that way. The way things are priced is so most people can afford them, in order to maximize profit. Simple supply and demand. And honestly I don't care if some people can't afford their healthcare. Death is inevitable whether you get your healthcare or not. I see it more as a luxury, not a necessity. And if you're going to give everyone healthcare, what about animals and trees? It doesn't make sense to arbitrarily draw the line and say these groups of beings get healthcare, but these others don't.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Except for things like healthcare where you need a million dollars worth of chemotherapy or YOU DIE.

Also, seriously, animals and trees? **** off with that bullshit.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:49 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Except for things like healthcare where you need a million dollars worth of chemotherapy or YOU DIE.

Also, seriously, animals and trees? **** off with that bullshit.


But even if you get the chemotherapy, you're still going to die eventually. And even living 35 years is very close to 100 years on a logarithmic scale. All I'm saying is I don't think healthcare needs to be provided to everyone. Healthcare didn't even used to exist. You had your tribal witch doctor and that's it.

Some animals are possibly more important than people. There's 7+ billion people, while many animals are going extinct. Part of my point was it's not fair to give free healthcare to people but not to animals.

edit: typos


Last edited by Lex Luthor on Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:51 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Müs wrote:
Except for things like healthcare where you need a million dollars worth of chemotherapy or YOU DIE.

Also, seriously, animals and trees? **** off with that bullshit.


But even if you don't get the chemotherapy, you're still going to die eventually. And even living 35 years is very close to 100 years on a logarithmic scale. All I'm saying is I don't think healthcare needs to be provided to everyone. Healthcare didn't even used to exist. You had your tribal witch doctor and that's it.


Oh. ****. That's right. I totally forgot you were a troll. My bad.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Get the **** outta here with animal and plant healthcare Lex even I don't troll that hard.

Also somewhat serious responses would be animal and forest conservation efforts. Much like people, they get **** over when big companies want something they can't defend.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:09 pm 
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Well if healthcare is so extremely important to dole out for free, why keep it all to just one species who happens to live in a certain geographic area? Or otherwise, admit it's more like a luxury and not a necessity.


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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:16 pm 
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You're certainly making me rethink mental health program subsidies.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:23 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Educating the populace is a good thing. Ensuring the populace is healthy is also a good thing. Both of these things make our country stronger.

Apparently the only thing our tax dollars are really good for anymore is killing brown people overseas. Personally, I'm tired of that. I'm tired of over 50% of our tax revenue being spent on a military that the rest of the world is using so they can make sure their citizens are educated and healthy.

Why should we continue to pay for Europe's security when they can't be bothered to pay for it themselves?


No, actually it doesn't make our country stronger. We do not need free healthcare for a populace that won't accept the necessary restrictions like not being allowed to smoke 5 packs of cigarettes a day on their minimum wage job or the restrictions on soda pop sizes

What we need even less is free college for everyone. Education does not, in fact make us stronger. Some kinds of education do - are we going to mandate that people study things that are actually useful, like engineering or math? No, probably not. We're going to get lots of people majoring in crap like ethics, black studies, women's studies, puppetry (lol) and other forms of a BA in Complaining About Fake Problems. If they really want to challenge themselves they might even go for sociology. We do not need to pay for that.

Furthermore, military spending is about the only place our tax money is doing anything useful - "brown people" notwithstanding. These people are agents in and of themselves. They will not be our friends, they will not like us if we stop killing them. They want to come here, get free stuff, and make us conform to their social ideas by outbreeding us if necessary. As for Europe, it isn't brown people we're defending them from, it's other white people.

You were among the crowd that spent years trashing Monty for believing this pap and now you've been seduced by a crazy old loon from Vermont. This viewpoint, that we can make life better if only we spend money on getting free stuff is the crack cocaine of politics.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
I guess it depends on your view of the ideal country to live in. Bernie's ideal country has a very large government that is like a parent to everyone in need, and exists to provide for them. I'd rather have a very small government, where people are responsible for their own well-being. Even if the net result is that people are worse off (which I doubt would happen), I'd still prefer it.


In this country? The people would definitely be worse off. That money would just go into the pockets of the rich anyway. Cause that's what we need, wealthier top end, and poorer middle class on down. People that can't afford medical care or education. You're advocating the creation of a permanent underclass.


So is everyone advocating for open borders or amnesty or claiming that illegals for some reason ought to be hear. "But they take the jobs Americans don't want!"

Oh, really? They take our **** jobs for almost no pay and they're all of a certain ethnicity that doesn't speak English very well.. and yet hilariously the people that want to KEEP THEM OUT are supposedly "racists".

Nothing like creating a permanent underclass to use as a source of future voters that are dependent on your largesse and secure their loyalty by fearmongering about the imaginary racists that supposedly hate them.

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 Post subject: Re: HILLARY WINS IOWA!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:28 pm 
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Its moments like this that make me want to vote for Trump just because it will drive people crazy if he wins.

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