The Glade 4.0

France is overrun with "no-go" zones, and there is no sign of normal assimilation patterns.

The only thing "just wrong" is you lecturing on things you haven't bothered to learn anything about first.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Sounds like the East London Irish slums in late 1800s. Or the New England Irish slums in the mid 1800s. Or chinese immigrants. Or every other wave that was opposed and people said was the end of the world.

Sure there's issues, but these no-go zones, have not existed for generations, and will not. There could certainly be issues if mismanaged, but that's like anything.



Don't be a tool. You're doing the same thing every other xenophobic resident has done throughout history. It's always worse now than ever in history. Read your history - things are generally the same. There are differing factors, but nothing that's going allow them to turn France into a mirror of their home country.

There already ARE issues. The no-go zones are an indication of the reversal of assimilation; the zones haven't been around for generations, but muslims certainly have been in France for a long time. All you're doing is blithely dismissing problems that are actively getting worse.

As for those previous immigrant groups, none of them had radical groups in their home countries actively trying to get them to attack their adopted nations. The IRA may have been bad news at home but they weren't a problem here. Ignoring different factors in an attempt to force it into a historical model is hubristic at best.



I'm not French you fool, so I can't be xenophobic about Muslims in France. "Read your history" is the cry of intellectually laziness. History tells us that France has long historical ties to the Middle East, and recent history (post-WWII) tells us they've bent over backwards to maintain generally good relations with Muslim nations. This is doing them no favors; they have long had a Muslim minority but now they have "no-go zones" everywhere and indications are that not only are recent immigrants not assimilating as past ones did, but are actively un-assimilating some of those already there. Historical situations never repeat exactly, vapid platitudes about "doomed to repeat it" notwithstanding.

"Xenophobic", by the way, is just "Racist" with a fig leaf over it. At best it's a slovenly approach to discussion, at worst it's simply an attempt to denigrate your opponent rather than address the issue. It is not a word that has any place in serious discussion. If someone is being "xenophobic" you should be able to explain the problems without resorting to hastily-concealed ad-homs.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I didn't say you were xenophobic. I said you're doing the same thing they do. The idea that this time is any different than the past is untrue, by and large.







they have long had a Muslim minority but now they have "no-go zones" everywhere and indications are that not only are recent immigrants not assimilating as past ones did, but are actively un-assimilating some of those already there. [/quote]

No go zones "everywhere"? There are issues, but they do not have no go zones "everywhere".



That is incorrect. The term is apt. No, it doesn't correlate directly with racism, though it's related. It's about fear of influx of people with different cultures, primarily. Racism is rooted in the belief that other races are either inferior or have undesirable qualities; xenophobia is rooted in the fear that the influx of "others" will result in changes to culture or societal makeup / economic issues, etc. It's not directly a factor of a negative view of the people, though it can certainly lead to that.

Getting back to the point, these cultural pockets of non-assimilated people, typically not aligned well with authorities and frequently hotbeds of crime, are exactly what drives the xenophobic fears. This is not without reason, but it's nothing new. This has occurred throughout history, following famine, war, or economic hard times. There are exceptions, but largely, people have assimilated over only a handful of generations. The obvious examples are conquerors; they don't assimilate well.

No go zones "everywhere"? There are issues, but they do not have no go zones "everywhere".



That is incorrect. The term is apt. No, it doesn't correlate directly with racism, though it's related. It's about fear of influx of people with different cultures, primarily. Racism is rooted in the belief that other races are either inferior or have undesirable qualities; xenophobia is rooted in the fear that the influx of "others" will result in changes to culture or societal makeup / economic issues, etc. It's not directly a factor of a negative view of the people, though it can certainly lead to that.

Getting back to the point, these cultural pockets of non-assimilated people, typically not aligned well with authorities and frequently hotbeds of crime, are exactly what drives the xenophobic fears. This is not without reason, but it's nothing new. This has occurred throughout history, following famine, war, or economic hard times. There are exceptions, but largely, people have assimilated over only a handful of generations. The obvious examples are conquerors; they don't assimilate well.[/quote]



You go right on thinking that, champ.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Ok, tiger

Muslims do assimilate. They just don't necessarily do it first or even second generation.

Anecdotal: The El-Tawhid Juma Circle Mosque is an LGBTQ-Friendly mosque in Toronto where attendees have equal status and integrate regardless of sex, gender or sexual orientation.

I am no fan of religion in general. I honestly believe the world would be better off without any religion, and Islam in particular is problematic in the 21st century. However, I freely admit that if all religious people were like those who run this mosque, the world would be a much better place. They have adopted the values of the community they live in.

Rebuttal to my anecdotal evidence: The fact that the concept of a gender-blind, sexually-equal, non-homophobic Islamic community is novel and spectacular enough that it's noteworthy to point out when one exists proves that they're nowhere near the level of social advancement that christianity has made, where there are as many churches that allow female and homosexual clergy as there are that condemn it outright.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Muslims have assimilated in the past, but the present situation with Muslims in Europe is that past assimilation is actually being reversed, with ISIS being a major aggravating factor. There's also the problem that France has this fluctuating birth rate, with the decreases happening mostly among those of European ancestry. France's proportion of muslims will tend to increase significantly faster than it would from immigration alone, and there is less and less of a French population to assimilate into.

Russia was showing signs of the same problem since the end of the cold war, but their birth rate has jumped in the last 2 years, arresting the problem.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Brexit the movie is free on Youtube and offers some decent reasons to question the EU. Enormous bureaucracy and no oversight and no one votes for the powerful people who have their own agendas. Compared to the stay camps "Uh racism?!" and "uh we want to travel easier" and "we don't know what will happen!!1" the leave camp seems to be more persuasive. YMMV.

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn