The Glade 4.0

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi would approve of your message.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Yes, I suppose they would. So would tens of thousands of noncombatant refugees from the same region.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I'm sure. Tell me, if you're sworn to uphold an oath to protect the citizens of this nation and you actually had the authority to do so, how many Alwan's and Hammadi's would you accept in order to placate those tens of thousands?

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In time, this too shall pass.

There is no need for the United States to take on these masses of nearly unvetted refugees, as it works against our own national interests.

If the US is interested in a humanitarian effort, refugee camps should be built as close as possible to the countries of origion, and should be left to run by the UN.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I disagree.

The refugees are not all coming here, they are spreading among the countries that will take them. This is part of an international relief effort.

We take refugees, that is one of the things the USA has almost always done. When we have closed our borders to them in the past, such as the Jewish refugees before our involvement in WWII, we are just sending them to their dooms.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Jews have a shared and compatible culture. Muslims from the ME do not.

Bringing them here works against our National interest. End of story.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Don't confuse culture with religion, they are very different.

Mmmmm...

Yeah...

I'll just leave it at that.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I'm serious, and these are important distinctions.

Culture is defined by a great number of factors, not the least of which is language, but also values, practices, traditions, not all of which are religious in nature. Historically religion and culture were more closely linked. Culture tends to more closely align with geography than religion. But since we're talking about sociology and anthropology, there are always outliers. Take views on slavery--regardless of religion, it its far more often a regional practice than tied to any religious group. In fact during the anti-slavery movement in the US, BOTH sides used the same religion to justify their practice; clearly their differences were not religious but cultural.

Please tell us more about how many Jewish extremists shot up taverns, nightclubs, and newspapers amid their fleeing of the Nazis.

Also, please explain the vast similarities between a multi-sided civil war with numerous outside interventions and a variety of armed factions, versus a country under uncontested domestic control carrying out a genocidal policy against a group not engaging in effective resistance of any kind.

A poem and a statue 125 years ago are not a basis or a reason for national policy.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

http://reason.com/archives/2016/02/16/t ... s-good-for

I'm sorry. You were all talking about the threat posed by Muslim refugees? Please. Continue.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

That article seems to contradict the point you seem to be wanting to make...



It's hard so we shouldn't do it, and it's hard so they won't do it? Those are terrible arguments!

The reason it's "arguable" is because of the aversion by the previous administration to properly identify acts of terrorism as terrorism. Nidal Malik Hasan's acts are a perfect example.

The radical left wants assault rifles unavailable because of the incredibly small number of murders committed with them. They're scary!

Where's the outrage on this topic?

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In time, this too shall pass.

Yes, we were. A contrarian opinion from a libertarian does not make the concern irrelevant, since "it arguably hasn't happened in the past therefore it will never happen" is not a reasoned argument - the misnomer of Reason notwithstanding.

Let's not ignore the fact that refugees in other countries have had some pretty serious non-terroristic criminal consequences as well. Last week there was (for the 2nd time) a gang-rape of a Swedish woman by Afghan refugee men livestreamed, I believe on Facebook. There was the child molestation ring in Britain that the police were afraid to investigate over concerns about "racism". The mob of refugee men at the Berlin train station last year molesting women as they passed by.

But hey, let's get some woman, headscarf and all, on Rachel Maddow to complain that "woe is us, 22 states have anti-Sharia laws! We can't practice our religion!" I guess all that anti-gay and anti-woman stuff is totes ok when you can get some woman in a hijab to complain about it on MSNBC.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Benjamin Franklin

The Muslim Ban is an attack on Freedom of religion. It is also ridiculous in that it excludes the home countries of all the 9/11 terrorists.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

The constitutional right of religious freedom is only for citizens and people in the US. It doesn't protect non-citizens that reside outside the border


Oh, and a quote from my grandfather

When you're stupid you have to suffer

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In time, this too shall pass.

This ban includes a travel ban. If you have been to the seven countries you aren't coming in. If you put Saudi Arabia on that list then every muslim worldwide who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca would be banned.

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This is being characterized as a "constitutional crisis" in the media. Go figure, a president following his oath and exercising his constitutional authority to protect the citizens of this nation is a constitutional crisis. I guess it's been such a long time folks aren't used to that.

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In time, this too shall pass.

It isn't an attack on freedom of religion, mainly because A) it isn't a muslim ban and B) these people are not United States citizens, and are not entitled to enter the country. The power to control entry and exit on basically any criteria we want is inherent in the nation's sovereignty. Jurisprudence on this dates back to the 18th century, even prior to the Constitution. Ben Franklin was well aware of it when he said that.

As for the home countries of the 9/11 terrorists, that isn't how this is done. Trump didn't just make this list up; professionals did it - professionals under the Obama Administration, I might add. The same Obama administration that was exclusing Christian refugees from ISIS areas despite acknowledging a genocidal campaign against them. I guess they just weren't fashionable enough to be concerned about.

Quoting people in the most pompous fashion you can manage doesn't strengthen your position either.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The media, and much of the left, are basically being video game scrubs here. They thought there were "rules" to how things were done that were really just "hoiw the left prefers them done" and "how the media has been able to shape the narrative."

Now that they're discovering that no, in fact the rules do not give a liberal veto or a media veto over actions they just don't like. Especially not when the media has pissed away its credibility in a tantrum of partisan arrogance.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'm going to piss all of you off now.

Why is it there's only two sides in this debate that get shown? There are the idiots who support Trump's actions, and there's the idiots who defend Islam. Both are utterly indefensible by any means, whether practical or moral. Both are utterly despicable, nonsensical emotional reactions that don't help america and don't represent reality at all.

Micheal is right:



America used to stand for things that were almost unheard of in centuries past: Freedom. Welcoming, open arms, to show the world a better way. Oh, there were other countries that agreed, but America lead the way. Religion, creed, race -- these things should be irrelevant. Any truly patriotic American should be the first one to shout these things from the rooftops. Any human who values liberty should get tears in their eyes when they read the words of Emma Lazarus. Anyone who dares to think America needs to change its policies in response to those who despise freedom are no better than those who want to bring America down, since the end result is the same.

But notice a line in Emma's sonnet:



Don't get me wrong. I know many Muslims who cherish the freedoms we have in the west. They may worship Allah, but they are assimilated and westernized. They respect women, homosexuals. They have no calls for action against blasphemy, they do not try to implement Sharia law here, they would never want it.

Unfortunately, this does not represent all the Muslim people that want to come to the west. Thousands do not "yearn to breathe free." They want to prevent everyone else from "breathing free." Even among immigrants who choose to move to a free country, there are a more than significant number who come here and then try to remake their tyrannical sandbox shitholes. Refugees are more precarious -- it is undoubtedly sad that they need to flee such horrible conditions, and I'm all for humanitarian aid for them. However, they did not choose to come here because they wanted to live free. They were not fleeing Sharia law, they were fleeing war and violence. (Admittedly, Sharia law itself is pretty violent, but there is a difference.) Before we ever admit refugees, we must do what we can to ensure that they want to live in a way compatible with secular western society. Islam is not a "religion of peace," even insofar as it's possible for any religion to be. (Really, I'd only call Jainism a "religion of peace." Not that it's a good idea.) Islam is a violent, intolerant, wicked ideology that, if followed too closely, results in exactly the Jihadist violence we are seeing from the Islamic world. Sure, one can correctly argue that the bible is just as violent and disgusting, but the worst examples of Christians we see today in America are the Westboro Baptists, and even they aren't killing anyone. Islam needs to be called out for what it is doing. No matter what idiots like Noam Chomsky say, the west is not responsible for this violence. Islam, exclusively, must bear that responsibility. You cannot make progress toward peace until you accept this fact, and until we work toward reforming the faith into something else. This is possible. Christendom has changed from a murderous, tyrrany-inducing, war-mongering force of evil, to the impotent collection of meaningless platitudes it is today through precisely such a change. Stop hiding your heads in the sands and wake up. The threat from this religion is real. The overreaction of Trump supporters to it is preferable to pretending it does not exist.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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Talya the codified precepts of Judaism and Christianity are just as violent as those of Islam. This is a cultural problem not a religious one.

I already pointed that out in the post you're responding to.



If culture is the problem, not religion (Religion is really part of culture anyway, and culture is a part of religion, so it's a meaningless distinction), then why is it that Americans and Europeans convert to Islam and join ISIS, the Taliban, or al Qaeda to fight against the west? You don't see Christians in Iran perpetrating terrorist violence against their oppressors.

Christianity and Judaism used to be horribly violent, all around the world, long before we were born. They have been subjected to the fires of secularism and liberalism and been changed for the better. Islam has not had this transformation, and as it encounters these things, it is lashing out against them in defense.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

No they aren't. This is total nonsense.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

America never represented any unlimited promise of unrestricted freedom to come here. Following the Civil War, Immigration spiked in the 1880s, again prior to WWI, and again in the 1920s. From 1925 until the mid-1960s it was generally low, due to the 1924 immigration law and subsequent amendments. This poem was written during one of those spikes.

Furthermore, it's hilarious to be lectured by a Canadian on what "true Americans" should think. Aside from the fallacious nature of this No True Scotsman position, you want to talk about "reality" and then you retreat into emotion-laden bullshit about "tears in our eyes" blah blah blah. American patriotism isn't defined by what other countries think it should be.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."