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 Post subject: Re: Yay! More war!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Trump's decisions should be colored by coherent policy. In attacking the military of a sovereign nation, they should alco have gone through Congress. Here, he decided to strike first and ask permission later. And, the judicial filibuster wouldn't have been needed if the (R) **** would have brought Garland up for a vote over a year ago, instead of playing partisan bullshit. I wish I could refuse to do my job and keep it.


There is no particular reason he should have acted through Congress in a case like this. Congress has made clear through the War Powers Act when it feels consultation is mandatory - a law passed by override of veto. As for a coherent policy, "we will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons" is pretty **** coherent.

As for Garland, that "partisan bullshit" is exactly what the Democrats thought it was ok to threaten GWB with, when he had almost 2 years left, and which Biden articulated in 1992. This is entirely the Democrat's fault - at least insofar as it's anyone presently in the Senate's fault, since filibustering nominees is actually a terrible practice regardless. Neither Trump nor Gorsuch had anything at all to do with that, and resenting that McConnell played exactly the same politics they themselves had advocated is utter crap.

No, Trump demonstrated that he'd notify one of our adversaries about a strike before our congress. He demonstrated that he'd give them a chance to move their personnel and other **** off the base before we gave it a love tap in and around its environs. That we'll strike, but not attempt to do any real damage.

Except that we did, in fact, do real damage- to the tune of 20% of their aircraft, which is effectively much higher because they can't keep them flying at high OR anyhow. Or I suppose you're going to now tell me that you know better than James Mattis how effective the strike was. Maybe you should jump right in the "my intuition is better than facts!" pool with Elmo.

As for notifying an adversary, yes, making notice to a country we don't want to provoke is a wise move. He's not, however, obligated to notify Congress in advance.

Pull our military out, and let the region deal with it. Saudi Arabis has planes and Money. So does Israel. They both have a far more vested interest in destroying ISIS than we do. I seem to remember.

Ok, fine. So, if Trump pulls out tomorrow and refuses to have anything whatsoever to do with Syria in the future, you'd support that and not conveniently forget you were in favor of it if it didn't work out the way you planned?

I somehow doubt it.

Still attacking a sovereign country (act of war) without congressional authorization. Irrelevant. Congress passed a law to define how it thinks that Article 2 is delimited, just like they pass laws to put every other part of the Constitution into actual effect.

There is nothing inherently wrong with an attack on another country if the President feels it is necessary as long as the limits in the War Powers Act are adhered to.

Its my right to have an opinion. Just as its your right to think I'm an idiot.

No one said you can't have an opinion. the problem is that you're trying to have an opinion on a factual matter you have absolutely no knowledge of. Sucking your thumb and saying "but I have a right to an opinion!" is meaningless.

Nah, I'd prefer if deplorables like you didn't vote. But that's ok. I'll continue to exercise my constitutional rights. At least until your side strips me of them. ;)

You say "deplorable" like it's somehow negative. Don't worry, your rights aren't going anywhere. People like me like it that people like you can make fools of yourselves spouting your bullshit opinions. It's like giving you bread and circuses, and we get to point and laugh.

What I said was "do us a favor". Sort of like you can do the world a favor by not becoming a stripper. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it a good idea.

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Last edited by Diamondeye on Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Kairtane wrote:
I'm not going to mine for any type of quote about Tomahawks being targeted properly. I'm only going to say that at one time, long before GPS, which can be accurate to within 1 meter, the US military had the ability to put nuclear missiles within 10 meters of target. You can bet that any tomahawk that didn't have an engine failure hit within 3 feet of its target.


Exactly. So we deliberately missed most of the air base.


No amount of repetition is going to make your information-free BDA accurate.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:19 pm 
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... 19e3a2d0d6

It is to laugh. Or... it would be if there was any sort of competence in this administration and their buffoons.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Müs wrote:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/04/11/sean_spicer_hitler_didn_t_use_chemical_weapons.html?utm_content=inf_10_2641_2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_580147c01ef111e7952abb19e3a2d0d6

It is to laugh. Or... it would be if there was any sort of competence in this administration and their buffoons.


Hitler indeed did not use chemical weapons, and seeing as how "the holocaust" is the common term, I don't see the problem. "holocaust" is hardly a minimization (though rather unorthodox). Spicer fairly specifically said "Sarin", which Hitler didn't use.

"Hitler didn't use gas on his own people in the same way Assad is doing." No, in fact he clearly didn't - he marched people into chambers instead of dropping bombs on him. What moron reporter even asked about this? Who gives a ****?

The only "buffoonery" is the desperation to find a problem in literally everything. Spicer has some clumsy phraseology, but he's speaking in real time, not reading a teleprompter. He specifically used the word "holocaust". It is the height of nitpickery to claim this is anything other than lefties trying to look smart.

"Oh hey let's nitpick the exact use of the term holocaust and whether gas used in chamber is "using chemical weapons'" Truly a winning case on the pivotal facts of the matter at hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Kairtane wrote:
I'm not going to mine for any type of quote about Tomahawks being targeted properly. I'm only going to say that at one time, long before GPS, which can be accurate to within 1 meter, the US military had the ability to put nuclear missiles within 10 meters of target. You can bet that any tomahawk that didn't have an engine failure hit within 3 feet of its target.


Exactly. So we deliberately missed most of the air base.


They weren't aimed at the base. They were aimed at specific targets on the base. Just google for before and after photos. You will see holes in the exact center of revetments (the place they park planes to prevent damage to them), workshops, hangars and refueling equipment. But you go on spouting your "knowledge".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Kairtane wrote:

They weren't aimed at the base. They were aimed at specific targets on the base. Just google for before and after photos. You will see holes in the exact center of revetments (the place they park planes to prevent damage to them), workshops, hangars and refueling equipment. But you go on spouting your "knowledge".


No, see we were supposed to hit the runway, remember? Because that's the first thing people think of when they think airbase! You know the thing that's 10,000 feet long and made of concrete.

If you don't blow that you obviously did nothing because one of the few surviving aircraft took off a few hours later in an obvious move to say "nyah see you didn't blow up EVERYTHING!!"

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Müs wrote:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/04/11/sean_spicer_hitler_didn_t_use_chemical_weapons.html?utm_content=inf_10_2641_2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_580147c01ef111e7952abb19e3a2d0d6

It is to laugh. Or... it would be if there was any sort of competence in this administration and their buffoons.


That article is taking nitpicking to a whole new level.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/04/11/sean_spicer_hitler_didn_t_use_chemical_weapons.html?utm_content=inf_10_2641_2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_580147c01ef111e7952abb19e3a2d0d6

It is to laugh. Or... it would be if there was any sort of competence in this administration and their buffoons.


Hitler indeed did not use chemical weapons, and seeing as how "the holocaust" is the common term, I don't see the problem. "holocaust" is hardly a minimization (though rather unorthodox). Spicer fairly specifically said "Sarin", which Hitler didn't use.

"Hitler didn't use gas on his own people in the same way Assad is doing." No, in fact he clearly didn't - he marched people into chambers instead of dropping bombs on him. What moron reporter even asked about this? Who gives a ****?

The only "buffoonery" is the desperation to find a problem in literally everything. Spicer has some clumsy phraseology, but he's speaking in real time, not reading a teleprompter. He specifically used the word "holocaust". It is the height of nitpickery to claim this is anything other than lefties trying to look smart.

"Oh hey let's nitpick the exact use of the term holocaust and whether gas used in chamber is "using chemical weapons'" Truly a winning case on the pivotal facts of the matter at hand.


Zyklon B is absolutely a chemical weapon.
"You had someone as despicable as Hitler who didn’t even sink to using chemical weapons. So you have to if you’re Russia, ask yourself, is [Syria] a country and a regime that you want to align yourself with?"

"I think when you come to Sarin gas—there was no, [Hitler] was not using the gas on his own people the same way that Assad is doing. I mean, there was clearly—there was not—in the, he brought them into the Holocaust centers, I understand that—but I'm saying in the way Assad used them, where he went into towns, dropped them down , to innocent—into the middle of towns."

No, Hitler was not airdropping canisters of Sarin on his own people. That, at least is correct. He was using it in "holocaust centers" (really? You don't know what "Concentration Camps" or "Gas Chambers" are there Spicy?) on millions of innocent men, women, and beautiful babies(to use a term coined by let's see... Chairman Orange (I don't think I've used that one yet have I? I do hate to be repetitive.)) I also quibble with the usage of "Own People".

Then... he tried to walk it back a skosh.
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Implying that the millions of jews exterminated by Hitler weren't "innocent".

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He fixed that, and said Assad was worse because he used airplanes on population centers.

Spicer is a moron. Up on the level with Baghdad Bob. A lyin-ass mouthpiece for a lyin-ass "president".

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Last edited by Müs on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Quote:
The only "buffoonery" is the desperation to find a problem in literally everything. Spicer has some clumsy phraseology, but he's speaking in real time, not reading a teleprompter.


Desperation? Nah. This ****'s easy. You'd think that someone that has the job he has would be a little more thoughtful and intelligent with his words. Every time he opens his mouth, something ignorant pours forth.

He's a good face for the administration. He fits. ;)

Just as an aside, you're literally defending someone that doesn't think Hitler was all that bad comparatively.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:32 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Müs wrote:
60,000 pounds of explosives and... the airbase was back up and running in less than 24 hours.

This strike wasn't done for military effect. It was done as "coercive diplomacy" / "politics by other means". It was a message sent in the only language Assad was likely to listen to.


I bet they would get it if we sent him the heads of his family members...

I do not think I could do it, but... I am sure some people would be willing to commit heinous acts of violence on him.

and on the other hand, if you can possibly defend a person who thinks Hitler was not as bad as Assad... just smh.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
No, see we were supposed to hit the runway, remember? Because that's the first thing people think of when they think airbase! You know the thing that's 10,000 feet long and made of concrete.

If you don't blow that you obviously did nothing because one of the few surviving aircraft took off a few hours later in an obvious move to say "nyah see you didn't blow up EVERYTHING!!"


This made me laugh out loud. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Kairtane wrote:
I'm not going to mine for any type of quote about Tomahawks being targeted properly. I'm only going to say that at one time, long before GPS, which can be accurate to within 1 meter, the US military had the ability to put nuclear missiles within 10 meters of target. You can bet that any tomahawk that didn't have an engine failure hit within 3 feet of its target.


Exactly. So we deliberately missed most of the air base.


Correct. We hit the parts that can not be easily repaired or replaced.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Just as an aside, you're literally defending someone that doesn't think Hitler was all that bad comparatively.


Actually, he's using Hitler as the STANDARD for all things horrible. And then states that Assad is in the same company.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Quote:
The only "buffoonery" is the desperation to find a problem in literally everything. Spicer has some clumsy phraseology, but he's speaking in real time, not reading a teleprompter.


Desperation? Nah. This ****'s easy. You'd think that someone that has the job he has would be a little more thoughtful and intelligent with his words. Every time he opens his mouth, something ignorant pours forth.

He's a good face for the administration. He fits. ;)

Just as an aside, you're literally defending someone that doesn't think Hitler was all that bad comparatively.


You try speaking to 60 hostile reporters asking question you don't know in advance. I'm sure you'll do better.

As for not thinking Hitler was all that bad comparatively - actually you know what? Never mind. That doesn't even merit being dignified with a contradiction.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Zyklon B is absolutely a chemical weapon.


It was a chemical agent, not a chemical weapon. It was never converted to a weaponized form, and didn't need to be for what it was used for.

Quote:
"You had someone as despicable as Hitler who didn’t even sink to using chemical weapons. So you have to if you’re Russia, ask yourself, is [Syria] a country and a regime that you want to align yourself with?"


Hitler did not deploy chemical weapons.

Quote:
"I think when you come to Sarin gas—there was no, [Hitler] was not using the gas on his own people the same way that Assad is doing. I mean, there was clearly—there was not—in the, he brought them into the Holocaust centers, I understand that—but I'm saying in the way Assad used them, where he went into towns, dropped them down , to innocent—into the middle of towns."


While this is a silly distinction to make, it's technically correct.

Quote:
No, Hitler was not airdropping canisters of Sarin on his own people. That, at least is correct. He was using it in "holocaust centers" (really? You don't know what "Concentration Camps" or "Gas Chambers" are there Spicy?) on millions of innocent men, women, and beautiful babies(to use a term coined by let's see... Chairman Orange (I don't think I've used that one yet have I? I do hate to be repetitive.)) I also quibble with the usage of "Own People".


Explain to me more how "holocaust centers" is somehow an excuse. You know, because Holocaust is a euphemism somehow.

Assad managed to find the one atrocity even Hitler wouldn't commit and committed it.

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Spicer is a moron. Up on the level with Baghdad Bob. A lyin-ass mouthpiece for a lyin-ass "president".


This coming from the guy who is nitpicking the semantics of a Hitler comparison done entirely on the fly. "Yeah Spicer is an idiot but I don't look stupid at all trying to divert the conversation onto this irrelevant detail. I mean, I've been claiming for 4 pages that this strike accomplished nothing but since I didn't know my *** from a hole in the ground I'll try to score points talking about how many angels can dance on the fuse of a gas bomb."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Y'all are comedy gold. You know that right?

I love you all. :) Just so you know that.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:41 am 
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Müs wrote:
Y'all are comedy gold. You know that right?

I love you all. :) Just so you know that.


Thanks. I have to admit, I thought myself quite clever.

We love you too, and accept your concession on all points.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:29 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
Y'all are comedy gold. You know that right?

I love you all. :) Just so you know that.


Thanks. I have to admit, I thought myself quite clever.

We love you too, and accept your concession on all points.


I do not concede though that Trump is the most venal, ignorant, selfish, boorish, awful excuse for a "President" that the country has ever seen, ever. With probably the most backwards, regressive cabinet in all of recorded human history.

The Syria strike though? Could have been done better, but I recognize the need for it.

Fair?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:01 am 
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Müs wrote:

I do not concede though that Trump is the most venal, ignorant, selfish, boorish, awful excuse for a "President" that the country has ever seen, ever. With probably the most backwards, regressive cabinet in all of recorded human history.


You don't? Ok good. I'm glad you've finally realized that this is complete nonsense. Well, except the boorish part. He's definitely boorish, perhaps a bit venal.

Quote:
The Syria strike though? Could have been done better, but I recognize the need for it.

Fair?


Sure. Anytime "backward" or "regressive" comes form the left it's a sign that actual progress is likely to be made.

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Progress in the wrong direction. Hence, regressive.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:43 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
Quote:
The only "buffoonery" is the desperation to find a problem in literally everything. Spicer has some clumsy phraseology, but he's speaking in real time, not reading a teleprompter.


Desperation? Nah. This ****'s easy. You'd think that someone that has the job he has would be a little more thoughtful and intelligent with his words. Every time he opens his mouth, something ignorant pours forth.

He's a good face for the administration. He fits. ;)

Just as an aside, you're literally defending someone that doesn't think Hitler was all that bad comparatively.


You try speaking to 60 hostile reporters asking question you don't know in advance. I'm sure you'll do better.

As for not thinking Hitler was all that bad comparatively - actually you know what? Never mind. That doesn't even merit being dignified with a contradiction.


But his job, literally, is to be good at speaking to 60 hostile reporters asking questions he doesn't know in advance. He's bad at it.

And someone who knows they're bad at making comparisons on the spot should probably avoid making comparisons to Hitler on the fly.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:49 am 
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Müs wrote:
Progress in the wrong direction. Hence, regressive.


Yeah sorry, the left doesn't represent progress.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:56 am 
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NephyrS wrote:
But his job, literally, is to be good at speaking to 60 hostile reporters asking questions he doesn't know in advance. He's bad at it.

And someone who knows they're bad at making comparisons on the spot should probably avoid making comparisons to Hitler on the fly.


Perhaps reporters should not ask questions that demand ridiculous or pointless comparisons as an answer, then ***** when they get precisely that.

In any case, this is an irrelevant red herring. If the only thing people have to quibble over is the phrasing of a comparison of Assad to Hitler we're well off into the land of being far more concerned with point-scoring than the actual situation that led to it.

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My initial emotional reaction is strong. **** that guy. But guess what. Dead children from chemical weapons are just as dead as the ones hit with conventional bombs. This outrage is nonsensical. If you want to fight and die for this cause, I recommend booking ticket to Syria and helping the rebels yourself. The strike is lame and if we're not going to undertake another super successful regime-change, what's the **** point? I thought Trump was tired of us spending time and money on the world's problems? The world has an unlimited number of children to get weepy about. I'm more concerned about my own to be honest. I'd build three Death Stars and betray the Rebels to secure my son's safety. **** off with this resistance bullshit. The US is alone in the desire to push this issue and we'll be alone in footing the enormous bill. It's amazing to see how much both Ds and Rs love **** war. "Oh the children!!!1 *masturbating noises*

Hillary also supports the strike. Great day to be a military contract company.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:55 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Müs wrote:
Just as an aside, you're literally defending someone that doesn't think Hitler was all that bad comparatively.


Actually, he's using Hitler as the STANDARD for all things horrible. And then states that Assad is in the same company.

He tried to make a cheap political point by trotting out Hitler in order to claim that the Trump administration's actions were awesome because look, this guy's even worse than Hitler. That would have been fine. This is literally the only time in recent memory that someone could justifiably compare an event or person to Hitler in a press briefing.

Except he bungled it, in amazing fashion. I don't think he's anti-semitic, or evil. I think he's just a guy who's on a global stage and has the handicap of being exceptionally terrible at his job. He's the Peter principle incarnate.

For a man holding the position of the most powerful communicator in the free world, Spicey doesn't word too good.

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