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 Post subject: Muslims outraged
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:04 am 
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by Christians using the word "Allah"

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KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Four Malaysian churches were attacked with firebombs, causing extensive damage to one, as Muslims pledged Friday to prevent Christians from using the word "Allah," escalating religious tensions in the multiracial country.

Many Malay Muslims, who make up 60 percent of the population, are incensed by a recent High Court decision to overturn a ban on Roman Catholics using "Allah" as a translation for God in the Malay-language edition of their main newspaper, the Herald.

The government says Allah, an Arabic word that predates Islam, is exclusive to the faith and by extension to Malays. It refuses to make an exception, even though the Herald's Malay edition is read only by Christian indigenous tribes in the remote states of Sabah and Sarawak.

At Friday prayers at two main mosques in downtown Kuala Lumpur, young worshippers carried banners and gave fiery speeches, vowing to defend Islam.

"We will not allow the word Allah to be inscribed in your churches," one speaker shouted into a loudspeaker at the Kampung Bahru mosque. About 50 other people carried posters reading "Heresy arises from words wrongly used" and "Allah is only for us."

"Islam is above all. Every citizen must respect that," said Ahmad Johari, who attended prayers at the National Mosque. "I hope the court will understand the feeling of the majority Muslims of Malaysia. We can fight to the death over this issue."

The demonstrations were held inside the mosque compounds to follow a police order against protests on the streets. Participants dispersed peacefully afterward.

Malaysia is often held up as a model for other Islamic countries because of its economic development, progressive society and generally peaceful coexistence between the Malay majority and the ethnic Chinese and Indian minorities who are mostly Christians, Buddhists and Hindus.

The Allah controversy, however, has the potential to shatter that carefully nurtured harmony, drive a deep racial wedge and scare away sorely needed foreign investment as the country struggles to emerge from the global financial crisis.

Prime Minister Najib Razak condemned the attacks on the churches by unidentified assailants, who struck before dawn in different suburbs of Kuala Lumpur. He said the government would "take whatever steps it can to prevent such acts."

Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said the country's leaders were very concerned about the situation.

"We don't want this to spread out into something else. ... I am not only assuring the minorities, I am assuring all Malaysians — anybody who is in Malaysia — that they are safe," he told reporters.

In the first attack, the ground-level office of the three-story Metro Tabernacle Church was destroyed in a blaze set off by a firebomb thrown by attackers on motorcycles soon after midnight, police said. The worship areas on the upper two floors were undamaged and there were no injuries.

Three other churches were attacked hours later, with one sustaining minor damage while the others were not damaged. No arrests have been made.

The tribespeople of Sabah and Sarawak, who speak only Malay, have always referred to God as "Allah," an Arabic word used not only by Muslims but also by Christians in Muslim-majority countries such as Egypt, Syria and Indonesia.

Many Malaysian Muslims say its use by others would mislead people, tempting them to convert to Christianity.

Since the verdict, hateful comments and threats against Christians have been posted widely on the Internet, but this was the first time the controversy turned destructive.

Kuala Lumpur police Chief Mohamad Sabtu Osman told The Associated Press that a witness saw four people on two motorcycles breaking the glass front of the Metro Tabernacle church and throwing an incendiary object inside before fleeing.

He said police found a wrench, an empty gasoline can and two scorched motorcycle helmets at the scene.

The backlash against the court verdict has reinforced complaints by minorities that they face institutional discrimination. They say it is almost impossible to get permission to build new churches and temples. Some Hindu temples have been demolished in the past. Court verdicts in religious disputes usually favor Muslims.


While I'm quite sure not every Muslim in Malaysia is in favor of burning churches or preventing Christians from using the word "Allah", this is a perfect example of just how everyday muslims are willing to resort to violence, and not over any oppression or victimization by anyone. Not over any issue of some tangible harm that's been done to them. This is violence at outrage over not having special priviledges over other religions. Not just Christianity either; apparently Hindus temples have been attacked in the past as well.

This is the attitude that really fuels terrorism. It isn't just about real or imagined physical wrongs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:11 am 
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Quote:
Muslims outraged.


Fire hot.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:33 am 
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Talya wrote:
Quote:
Muslims outraged.


Fire hot.


Taly beat me to it...

Was going to go with "water is wet"

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:41 am 
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I considered:

"They breathe, too! (That is, until they detonate.)"

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:41 am 
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Wait... they're firebombing churches because someone says "Allah"?

Seriously, what the **** is wrong with these people?

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 Post subject: Re: Muslims outraged
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:06 am 
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Xenophobia at its best, both from the posters in this thread and the Malay Muslims. Incidentally, your initial post is merely coincidence bias, Diamondeye.

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Last edited by Khross on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:07 am 
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They're trying to take over the world.

You want to say Allah, convert to Islam, no problem, you can say it as often as you like then.

They have a subset of members who want to keep trouble stirred up as much as possible. This kind of idiocy is go to keep happening, not among the mainstream members, but among the fringe.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:15 am 
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I'll convert to whatever you want me to, as long as you don't kill me.

It won't change the fact that I'll still think y'allah are a bunch of goddamned loonies.

But yeah, whatever Praise Allah and stuff. Woo. Now put the gun down Achmed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:46 pm 
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are we finally getting to the point where we can just kill everyone on the planet and be done with it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:51 pm 
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If they want the world converted to Islam they might get it, nothing will change mind you because by the time that happens it will be like how any major religion is, adopted because its the expected thing to do with people going through religious motions having no idea what faith is and living their lives in total contradiction to it and never knowing or caring.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:58 pm 
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I will gladly convert to Islam.. the day after I get a handjob from Allah. Not his prophet, but the deity himself.

Until that day it can F off.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
If they want the world converted to Islam they might get it, nothing will change mind you because by the time that happens it will be like how any major religion is, adopted because its the expected thing to do with people going through religious motions having no idea what faith is and living their lives in total contradiction to it and never knowing or caring.


Sorta like what happen in the Roman Empire When Constantine declared everyone christians. Not saying you are wrong, just pointing out that it has very much happened before.

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 Post subject: Re: Muslims outraged
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:37 pm 
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More rational well thought out behavior

4th church fire bombed

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582655,00.html

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Everyone! Quick! Be afraid of Muslims!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Everyone! Quick! Be afraid of Muslims!


If Christians were crucifying people for use of the word Christ, you know this is exactly what you'd be saying. In fact, you already have. And while you think suppression of "gay rights" (again, whatever that means) is bad, isn't threatening death over use of a *word* pretty bad?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Not at all. In fact, we should be threatening death over the use of more words. Like nigger and lib.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:03 pm 
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And given Islams wonderful treatment of gays, thought you would be right there on the ramparts against them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:07 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
And given Islams wonderful treatment of gays, thought you would be right there on the ramparts against them.


No, you see, bashing "Conservatives" and Christians who allegedly all want gays to die is fashionable. Doing the same thing to followers of Islam is not. And we all know all "Conservatives", conservatives, and Christians hate gays universally without exception and that Islam is made up of followers of millions of individuals that don't need to share the same opinion, which is clearly not the case of the former 3.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:19 pm 
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How about Judaism? They are all Islam hating conquers who use forbidden weapons? Or just the ones over there?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Only the ones in Isreal. Jews in the US are a minority and thus must be protected as a National Treasure.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:30 pm 
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Equal opportunity extremism

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Rafael wrote:

If Christians were crucifying people for use of the word Christ, you know this is exactly what you'd be saying.


I would be saying "this branch of Christianity is out of hand" and "those are seriously violent extremists in that camp of Christians".

Quote:
In fact, you already have. And while you think suppression of "gay rights" (again, whatever that means) is bad, isn't threatening death over use of a *word* pretty bad?


Of course it is. It is also not indicative of Islam as a whole. If I were apply the same standards you and others here apply to Islam to Christianity, you would all be murdering rapists. It seems like you have one standard for one religion and another standard for Christianity.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Rafael wrote:

If Christians were crucifying people for use of the word Christ, you know this is exactly what you'd be saying.


I would be saying "this branch of Christianity is out of hand" and "those are seriously violent extremists in that camp of Christians".

Quote:
In fact, you already have. And while you think suppression of "gay rights" (again, whatever that means) is bad, isn't threatening death over use of a *word* pretty bad?


Of course it is. It is also not indicative of Islam as a whole. If I were apply the same standards you and others here apply to Islam to Christianity, you would all be murdering rapists. It seems like you have one standard for one religion and another standard for Christianity.


No it seems you have one standard for one and one for another. You've never once said "this branch" or anything like that. And in fact, when other people use specific qualifiers that demonstrate a non-ignorant, non-sweeping point such as (viewtopic.php?p=26192#p26192), you read it as an attack on the entire group:

Monte wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'm fairly sure shooting the axe-wielding man will also outrage part of the Islamic world. Clearly, Denmark is at fault for shooting someone's son, thereby outraging the family and making more terrorists.


Hurray for small minded bigoted attacks on all of Islam. Remind me to do the same the next time some crazed conservative Christian rolls into a church and guns a doctor down in the name of the Lord.


I don't have a biased stance because I'm neither Christian nor Muslim, nor do I favor any sort of ideology that is sympathetic toward either. I've never said anything on this board to demonstrate either.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:56 pm 
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How do you get that post as an attack on all Christians? I was simply doing in that thread what I am doing in this thread - holding Christianity to the same standards as Islam is being held.

These standards are unfair and irrational, which is what I am illustrating by applying them back across the bow. Or did you miss the point in favor of seeing it in a light that fed your preconceived notions?

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 Post subject: Re: Muslims outraged
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:29 pm 
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No one is holding "Islam" to any standards at all. What's being pointed out is that terrorism by muslims is not simply the product of a few extremist muslim organizations and individuals like Al Quaeda, while the rest of the average muslim world stands by in shock. Moral support for terrorist activity, while not universal to all muslims, both meets with the approval of many otherwise "everyday" muslims, and can be the result of something as completely innocuous as using the word "Allah" - not using it disrespectfully even, using it at all.

More importantly, this has nothing to do with Christianity. The fact that Christians and Muslims are burning each others' houses down in Egypt in no way establishes anything about whether muslims in Malaysia are behaving in a violent, extremist fashion, nor does it make anyone hypocritical for pointing it out.

Not only that, but no one said you were attacking all of Christianity in that thread. What Rafael correctly pointed out is that you turned "some parts of the Islamic world" into "all of Islam". You're not holding Christianity to the same standards other people are holding Islam to. You're inventing things people haven't said and then accusing them of hypocrisy on the basis of your fabrication.

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