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Corolinth
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:44 pm 
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So you realize that as part of your argument, you selected the president most infamous for confusing himself with a king? One who's transgressions in that arena were so egregious that they resulted in term limits for president? An amendment that passed during what would have been his fourth term of office - not something passed by future generations looking back in hindsight, but an immediate repudiation of what he was doing.

You offer no rebuttal.

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Wwen
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Bush set the stage for abuse of presidential power, and then rather than put his foot down and insist that the rule of law would be upheld, Obama chose to make further power grabs. The reality of the situation now is that both parties have worked together to create the monster that is the Trump Administration.

To Riov's more direct point:

You begin by not acting like the sky is falling and the world is coming to an end. You begin by not calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi. You begin by knocking it off with the, "America is a terrible horrible racist sexist shithole," rhetoric. You begin by acknowledging that the world at large is a much better place today than it was at any point in the past.

The left has become a group of extremists. Everything they don't like is the worst thing that ever happened in the history of the world. Liberals and leftists are not the same thing. We have too many leftists, and not enough liberals.

+++ It's a goddamned shame that the left has stolen the term liberal. There's nothing liberal about those people. It's basic horseshoe theory. :P

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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Wwen wrote:
It's basic horseshoe theory. :P

I learn something new every day. Thank you sir.

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:45 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
So you realize that as part of your argument, you selected the president most infamous for confusing himself with a king? One who's transgressions in that arena were so egregious that they resulted in term limits for president? An amendment that passed during what would have been his fourth term of office - not something passed by future generations looking back in hindsight, but an immediate repudiation of what he was doing.

You offer no rebuttal.


I made no point other than to offer that in the context of executive orders, bush didn't start this ****, nor was he substantially worse than many others.

DE - point taken, but if you do the math, he's still up there.
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Diamondeye
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:55 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
So you realize that as part of your argument, you selected the president most infamous for confusing himself with a king? One who's transgressions in that arena were so egregious that they resulted in term limits for president? An amendment that passed during what would have been his fourth term of office - not something passed by future generations looking back in hindsight, but an immediate repudiation of what he was doing.

You offer no rebuttal.


I made no point other than to offer that in the context of executive orders, bush didn't start this ****, nor was he substantially worse than many others.

DE - point taken, but if you do the math, he's still up there.


That is true; I was merely pointing it out for the record.

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TheRiov
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:29 pm 
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/jeff- ... 16456.html
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Screeling
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:35 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/jeff-sessions-woman-guilty-laughing-year-jail-sentence-code-pink-protester-a7716456.html

So what?

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Dude - she wasn't arrested for laughing. Do your homework, man.
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TheRiov
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:07 pm 
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Oh look. Trump fired Comey
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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:13 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Oh look. Trump fired Comey


TheRiov wrote:
...all the signs of the next Führer.


It's a slippery slope! Fire someone today, gas them tomorrow!

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Screeling
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:19 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Oh look. Trump fired Comey

I'm confused - shouldn't that make the D-team happy since Comey is the guy that supposedly cost their chosen one the election?

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Diamondeye
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:32 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Oh look. Trump fired Comey


Trump fires Comey - obvious attempt to get rid of the man who is on to his nefarious collusion with Putin

Trump doesn't fire Comey - Retains an FBI director who clearly interfered in the election with the public spectacle of his testimony before Congress and subsequent update to it.

Either way, you've got a reason to complain!

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shuyung
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:36 pm 
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That's what's known as a win-win situation.

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:25 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
Oh look. Trump fired Comey


TheRiov wrote:
...all the signs of the next Führer.


It's a slippery slope! Fire someone today, gas them tomorrow!


Can't fire without the gas.
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Xequecal
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Comey is the bad guy now? Does this Russia **** remind anyone else of Gamergate with how unfollowable it is?
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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:58 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Comey is the bad guy now? Does this Russia **** remind anyone else of Gamergate with how unfollowable it is?


It's easier to understand if you just get that the Russians didn't expect Trump to win either, and were really trying to undermine the expected Clinton presidency through propaganda efforts. They didn't actually hack any vote tallies or anything, and they didn't hack the Republicans because the Republicans didn't think "password" was a good password.

That's basically it. Russians gonna Russian. In all the discussion of it, the talking heads regularly fail to give the Russians credit for pursuing their own interests; they're always trying to fit Russia into whichever narrative they prefer, and about none of which does Russia give a ****.

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Coren
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:17 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
Oh look. Trump fired Comey


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NephyrS
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:20 am 
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And if Trump had fired him before now, basically at any time before he was running an investigation on Trump's ties to Russia, it would not look nearly as bad.

Firing him back in February? Trump would have been able to easily sell it as a bipartisan action. Firing him the same day grand jury subpoena's went out? Really bad optics for timing it.

He waited until it was a problem for his administration, then fired him.

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RangerDave
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:39 am 
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I don't get why people are acting like it's some huge inconsistency for Dems to believe that it's legitimate for the President to fire the FBI Director for reason X but not for reason Y. If the President fires the Director for attempting to influence the election, that's legit; if the President fires him in order to quash an investigation into the President's own wrong-doing, that's not legit. Seems like a pretty obvious and reasonable distinction to me. So, does anyone here seriously believe Trump fired him because he wronged Hillary Clinton?
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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:53 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
I don't get why people are acting like it's some huge inconsistency for Dems to believe that it's legitimate for the President to fire the FBI Director for reason X but not for reason Y. If the President fires the Director for attempting to influence the election, that's legit; if the President fires him in order to quash an investigation into the President's own wrong-doing, that's not legit. Seems like a pretty obvious and reasonable distinction to me. So, does anyone here seriously believe Trump fired him because he wronged Hillary Clinton?


Do you really think that firing the FBI Director will quash ongoing investigations?

Going down the chain of command, there is a Deputy Director, field office leadership, and all the agents that'll continue investigating.

Going up the chain (before you get to Trump), you have the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General.

No, you know better, but it's totally consistent for Dems to make mountains out of molehills and conflate events with faux astonishment for political purposes.

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FarSky
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
Do you really think that firing the FBI Director will quash ongoing investigations?

Going down the chain of command, there is a Deputy Director, field office leadership, and all the agents that'll continue investigating.

Until the new, hand-picked Trump appointee directs resources away from it, or directly closes the investigation. Do you really believe each agent investigates without direction from their supervisor?

Taskiss wrote:
Going up the chain (before you get to Trump), you have the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General.

Ah yes, the Attorney General who has been implicated in Russian involvement and who directly advised the firing of the man heading the investigation. Totally impartial and not at all sketchy.

RangerDave wrote:
I don't get why people are acting like it's some huge inconsistency for Dems to believe that it's legitimate for the President to fire the FBI Director for reason X but not for reason Y. If the President fires the Director for attempting to influence the election, that's legit; if the President fires him in order to quash an investigation into the President's own wrong-doing, that's not legit. Seems like a pretty obvious and reasonable distinction to me. So, does anyone here seriously believe Trump fired him because he wronged Hillary Clinton?

Noted conservative Bill Kristol put it succinctly: "One can be at once a critic of Comey and alarmed by what Trump has done and how he has done it."
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RangerDave
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
Do you really think that firing the FBI Director will quash ongoing investigations?

Fully quash? No. Have a chilling effect? Absolutely. Punish the lead investigator for doing his job and investigating the President (and/or his campaign/administration)? Obviously. Honestly, if you don't see that alone as major a problem, I don't know what to tell you.
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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:22 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Do you really think that firing the FBI Director will quash ongoing investigations?

Fully quash? No. Have a chilling effect? Absolutely. Punish the lead investigator for doing his job and investigating the President (and/or his campaign/administration)? Obviously. Honestly, if you don't see that alone as major a problem, I don't know what to tell you.


Given your obvious partisan position, there's nothing you can tell me that I'll give credence to.

The firing of the FBI Director will do one thing - create a situation where a special prosecutor will be assigned, a committee will be called, etc. It's not going to stop any investigation.

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NephyrS
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Do you really think that firing the FBI Director will quash ongoing investigations?

Fully quash? No. Have a chilling effect? Absolutely. Punish the lead investigator for doing his job and investigating the President (and/or his campaign/administration)? Obviously. Honestly, if you don't see that alone as major a problem, I don't know what to tell you.


Given your obvious partisan position, there's nothing you can tell me that I'll give credence to.

The firing of the FBI Director will do one thing - create a situation where a special prosecutor will be assigned, a committee will be called, etc. It's not going to stop any investigation.


Except McConnel today quashed the need for a special prosecutor post-firing, saying that the new FBI director will handle it.

I think it's quite a chilling effect that last week Comey asked for funding for the Russia investigation from the AG's office, the immediate response of which was a recommendation from the AG and deputy AG to have him fired. That's definitely a chilling effect.

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Diamondeye
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:59 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
I don't get why people are acting like it's some huge inconsistency for Dems to believe that it's legitimate for the President to fire the FBI Director for reason X but not for reason Y. If the President fires the Director for attempting to influence the election, that's legit; if the President fires him in order to quash an investigation into the President's own wrong-doing, that's not legit. Seems like a pretty obvious and reasonable distinction to me. So, does anyone here seriously believe Trump fired him because he wronged Hillary Clinton?


No, but that isn't what the administration did. They fired him for how he handled the entire thing - including his public statements regarding Clinton's unequivocal wrongdoing, but then deciding not to bring any charges. Had Clinton been anyone else, she'd have been prosecuted, but her nomination was treated like a shield.

Trump should have acted sooner, but the FBI is not presently investigating wrongdoing by Trump. Both they and ODNI have said there is no evidence of collusion. They don't even have reasonable suspicion at this point. The investigation happening is a counterintelligence investigation against Russia. This has turned into an exercise in straw-grasping at this point, because people refuse to admit that it wouldn't have been to Russian advantage to collude. They wanted to undermine Clinton, not give her sympathy as a victim.

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