The Glade 4.0

LOL, you both are missing the point, which has nothing to do with gay marriage specifically.

No, no, no, a thousand times no. If God inspired the writers of the Scriptures, does the disbelief of people invalidate that work of God? Of course not. Does God cease to exist because some choose to believe He does not exist? Of course not. What you believe or do not believe about anything has zero bearing on what actually exists. You can believe that there are monkeys on the moon, but that belief does not bring them into existance.

Then elaborate Mr. Quizzical. I can't see any other connotation to your statement.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I never said the nature of Scripture or of the people who wrote it disproved God's Nature of that He is Divine. I said that what exists doesn't substantiate it in the positive in any way. If you say God inspired those who wrote Scripture, it doesn't it make it so because you believe it to be the case. Go right to your line about beliving monkeys on the moon. Go to it and read it. I'm not believing anything, but nor am I disbelieving it either.

The Scripture is not special in anyway other than those who choose to believe it is so. That is my point.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

In the real world, you have to deal with differing view points every day. Some radically different than your own. Sometimes those viewpoints are held by people in power over you. (As an example the CEO of my company is an Evangelical Christian)

Shielding your children from anything that doesn't fit your world view IMHO is very harmful to their development and ability to function once they get to be adults. Including the schools they attend.

Further, tho not stated in my post, I believe that Talya far overstates the bleed in of personal life and opinions by quality professionals. Professionals do not let their personal views drastically affect their teaching, especially on non-politically charged topics such as math, english and hard science.

Are there teachers out there that let their personal views affect their teaching? Sure, but that is an individual performance problem, not some endemic problem with the system.

Granted, but only from a very limited perspective. Because if the Scriptures are true (and I believe that they are), then what is contained within the Scriptures will come to pass whether people believe or not. If calamity comes, do you suppose that only believers will experience that calamity? If God judges this nation and hands it over to its enemies, do you suppose that only believers will be in dire straits?

"God causes His sun to shine on the just as well as the unjust".

You know, I've been reading unChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks About Christianity and Why it Matters lately, and I've got to say... this whole thread is extremely depressing to me.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Again I say: Experiencing what is occuring in the world is different from giving someone authority over your child who may try to influence your child in ways that conflict with what you are trying to teach at home. I am not talking about shielding our children.

Was going to say the same thing. What Aizle is presenting is a misrepresentation of what has been said, a strawman and somewhat of a false dilemma. I don't want someone editorializing their opinion (or rather, not doing so in a coercive, authoritative and dishonest manner) over my children (if I had any) whether they are preaching "gay or God" (yes, I realize that is somewhat of a false dilemma).

I believe it is not only everyone's right to raise his child, but it is his duty

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

But the Scriptures aren't true (in general) because you choose to believe so. I see them as being true *to you* because you choose to believe they are. Nor is God Divine or of His Nature because people believe He is so. The Scripture is more or less a chronicle of people testifying to the Nature of God and that He is Divine. It's no more substantial (to those not of faith) than you telling me God is real and He is Divine because you believe him to be so.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

While I'll agree with most of that, I see that as a complete non-sequitur from what the context of the conversation was and what you posted. What you posted followed directly on and quoted a statement about pulling kids out.

Hard science and English biases are actually quite easy to find.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

This is an extremely aggravating thing to hear you say for two reasons:

1) Implicitly, you're dividing up the nation into two groups: the just and the unjust. Guess which side you've given yourself the flattery of being in? Because, ah yes -- homosexuality is a special sin. A really bad sin. A sin that's clearly worse than your own sins, and therefore it's those evil homosexual apostates that are to blame to God's wrath -- you didn't have anything to do with it because you're less sinful than they are!

2) The passage you quoted pretty well undermines your entire argument that God makes good things happen if you do good things, and bad things happen if you do bad things. Someone who's spent as much time studying the scripture as you have shouldn't be so foolish. Do you not remember the community around Job pointing to him and saying, "gee, Job must be doing something really bad. Stop that, Job, and God will start being nice again." Did you miss the entire point of that exchange? Or did you miss that part of new testament where Jesus warned that a special measure of suffering awaited -- not the unrighteous -- but anyone who chose to follow him? Maybe you've forgotten that Paul was imprisoned, flogged, beaten, stoned, shipwrecked, starved, cold, naked, and persecuted and assaulted by bandits, Jews, Gentiles, and false believers. I guess Paul must have been a raging homo, because apparently that's the only thing that cause bad things to happen to anyone.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Yeah, except that God is still on His throne; nothing that is happening is surprising Him. That said, I believe the biggest problem in the church today is that it is conforming to this world, rather than transforming the world around it. And that is because of us. We are called to be a city on a hill. A light that illuminates the whole room. We need to return to those principles. I'm trying.

I don't see how it's a non-sequitur. It's completely germain to the idea of pulling out your kids from a school because of teachers personal beliefs. The fact is that one's own religious beliefs for the most part don't directly affect the vast majority of K-12 education material. Even creationism is irrelevant, because Science deals with evolution. So even if you don't believe in evolution, you damn well better understand it if you're going to consider yourself educated in the US.

1) ALL have sinned. ALL. Every single last one of us. There are NONE righteous; no, not ONE!

The only reason some are called "just" is because of the grace of God, through faith. "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." To say that I view homosexuality as some kind of special sin is false in the extreme. I have sinned, and apart from the work of God I am as guilty as any homosexual ever was, of being a sinner. Nor is there a single homosexual out there who is beyond the reach and grace of God.

2) I have not forgotten. God causes His sun to shine on the just as well as the unjust. Just as Christ said, "No servant is above his master. If they have hated Me, they will hate you also."

Paul, even with what he had suffered, was still able to write:

"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? it is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, "For your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us...."

I have not forgotten. Should it please God that I suffer such things as Paul, in order to bring Him glory, may I bear it as well as Paul did.

But then, that does not invalidate my point.

Pulling out of school for teachers with similar beliefs on sexuality was the topic at hand.

Your post stated that doing so isn't living in the real world.

Your revised post indicates a belief in multiculturalism as being important.

Gender preference isn't a culture, hence I (and Rafael apparently) both took you as speaking exclusively to beliefs on sexuality.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I think it does show that people who teach HIGW are bad at both math and science.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Wow. I'm just stunned at how amazingly off you are on both what I posted and the logical things that could be inferred.

The topic at hand was pulling kids out of school if the personal views of the teachers didn't match your own.

My post indicated that isolationism wasn't the answer and detrimental to the child

My revised post indicated that one needed to learn how to live in the real world, where you have to interact with many people of differing viewpoint effectively.

And your last point, while irrelevant to the topic at hand, is also completely wrong. Quite frankly you're amazingly ignorant if you think there isn't a gay culture.

I would advise against being so hasty to sling around such statements. Is there a gay culture? What is it? Is it like porn, you can't define it, but you'd know it if you saw it? How closely does it equate to the sexual preference of its constituents?

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I just want to reassure you that someone understands what you're trying to say regardless of whether your intended audience does.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Anyone who does not believe Christians catch it for standing as they should might want to talk to Brit Hume.

http://townhall.com/columnists/MattBarb ... _brit_hume

I'm still waiting for New Testament proof of God judging a nation and handing it over to their enemies.

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Thats in the New new testament.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

No, that's much more general than the conversation was. Specificity matters, and in this case establishes context.



No, your post indicated that you didn't think Bery lived in the real world. PERIOD. You were not nuanced in any way, and as such it was up to the reader to interpret, which I did based upon the context, which was specific to acceptance of certain sexualities.



Which I agree with.



Actually, it's entirely relevant, and correct. Sexuality is not a culture. Acceptance of that sexuality is not a culture. Yes, there are multiple "gay" sub- cultures; does that mean there is a heterosexual culture? No. "Gay culture" and "gay as a sexual preference" are not synonymous. Unless you're a bigot.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Or, alternately, I'm waiting for proof that God has changed. I'm waiting for proof that God has not directed events to accomplish His will in the last 2,000-ish years.