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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:58 am 
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Perfect Equilibrium
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Monte wrote:
When you hit someone, power starts with the ball of your foot, goes through your hips and then out through your tight fist. A lot of people try to generate power just with their arms, and that's not enough. Women have more lower body strength than men, so tapping into that is important for women's self defense. Specifically, the hips.


Power starts in your legs, hips and core ... the normal force reaction provided by the ground is transmitted through your feet to your legs, but that doesn't actually provide any power. It just allows you exert more than your body weight in force without being moved yourself due to Newton's 3rd law, and only with upward blows. Any lateral blow (or even the lateral component of oblique angled blows) is much more likely to accelerate the puncher because the reaction force in this direction is provided by friction, rather than the normal reaction of a solid plane like the ground.

Your arms do not generate the locomotion to drive any punch. Your arm muscles, the bicep, tricep and flexors being the primary muscles, can only flex your arm at the elbow. Rather, most people try to punch with only upper body muscles such as the deltoids (shoulders). When the lats, upper body posterior muscles, core and hips move together in harmony, then you generate significantly more power, whether its the dominant hand cross, uppercut or the hook. The kinematics of each blow is different, but the muscle groups used are the same.

It is for this reason, I do not suggest anyone untrained to use these types of punches. Just developing a left hook by itself takes months and months of repetition, against a heavy bag, with a trainer holding focus mits, and finally against a live sparring partner. It takes this time to develop the speed, twitch and power in these muscles, to do so consistently and harmoniously, and accurately place the shot where it will do damage. It's even more difficult to develop the left hook after the right hand - these two are a staple for boxers because they set each other up. Think about all those details - are you going to be able to do that in an instant, without all the months of muscle memory developing amateurs put into learning those shots? As an unpracticed person, you will find these punches to be slower, more telegraphed, less damaging for the effort and worst, likely to put you in a clinch which is the worst possible spot (except from on the back) for the smaller person.

Rather, rake the eyes and nose, try to break fingers if they get close. This is much more likely to succeed. If the worse happens, and they do grab you in a clinch, a headbutt is a very powerful tool, as are knees and elbows which work better at this range.

But hopefully, you won't have to do any of that. Kirra, hopefully, that ring will just be the last price to get rid of something negative in your life and the start of something positive. Best wishes -!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:16 am 
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As a point of order, women do not have (on average) more lower body strength than men in absolute terms. What they have is more of their relative body strength concentrated in the lower body, which gives them a higher strength there compared to their total body weight.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:26 am 
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Oh yes, DE, I meant to post that too. As clarification, that means not necessarily more strength per pound of weight, either. That's another reason why I do not recommend defending oneself with punches such as that, unless you have the size advantage or are very practiced.

Finger locks and eye gouges work so much better.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:31 am 
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Jasmy wrote:
Oh, and watch out for that Mus guy :P


Hey now!

I'm harmless :)

for the most part.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:51 am 
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Thanks again for the thoughts. I called my lawyer yesterday and he is going to see if he can stop my ex from getting anything more from the house. Part of me thinks this is a mistake, I don't want to incite him anymore, just move on so I can get a life back. I dunno, I delete his voice mails, I just listened to the one, he wants us to get back together or so he says, yet he gives his gf my ring. I swear he must be doing drugs, this behavior is bizarre for him. The police are still doing drive bys for me, makes me feel better.

I really need to take some sort of self defense class though. My problem is, I am short..5'1" so I think I would have trouble going for the eyes or throat, don't think I can get enough momentum to do any damage anyways. My legs are pretty strong but it was hard to get a good kick in, I didn't really incapacitate him, just made him madder. I need to get better so my reactions take over, I got lucky to get away, the way he was coming after me I think he would have hit me more.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:56 am 
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If he is 6 ' do you really think I can get him in the face to not just make him madder?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:01 am 
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How did you break his nose? Did he pin you down or try to grab you or were you able to just hit him?

Avoidance is the best option IMO, maybe you can get a restraining order on him? Not sure how that works during a seperation. Maybe DE knows.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:09 am 
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When I fell off the deck there was a shovel, I grabbed it to help me get up, I fell in a snow pile and was having trouble slipping. I got up when he was coming around the deck and ran, he grabbed my shirt and I swung around and hit him in the face with the handle. I do have a ppo on him.. But that really doesn't stop him. He doesn't seem to care about what will happen if he breaks the limits of the ppo.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:31 am 
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Put everything in storage, come out West for awhile. Its warmer here anyway. He's sounding increasingly unstable from your descriptions.

Yes, I know its impractical.

Has he ever made you fear for your life? Ignoring the PPO is a huge warning sign. DE, can I get some back-up here?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:09 am 
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Ignoring the PPO is definitely threatening behavior, although it's also unfortunately common. If his behavior is more and more bizarre, he may very well be on drugs or simply becoming unbalanced.

As for being short and going for the eyes or throat, part of the point is that those areas are soft and very little force is really needed. Another good one is the knee, especially when locked. Force applied at a downward angle against the locked knee has a high probability of immobilizing someone. No matter how strong they are, bone has only so much resistance to shear stress.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:45 am 
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Kirra, I worry about you. I read somewhere that the first 3 months after leaving an abusive person are the most dangerous...that 3 month period is when women are killed or seriously maimed by their exes.
You need to worry about your personal safety right now and make sure you have a support/security system in place.
Micheal's suggestion is good. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:59 am 
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I just realized something.

Kirra's a ranger.

She pwnt her ex... In the face... With what? A shovel that was just laying there. An abandoned shovel if you will.

Well done Lady! Well done!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Kirra wrote:
Just when I thought things were over and would be getting better...

A friend of mine that works with my ex-husband, called me today. She told me that his gf came in and was showing everyone her "new" engagement ring. She started describing it to me.. it's my f**king wedding ring..he gave her my ring :( . My ring was very distinctive, and she described it exactly. After I had my miscarriage, I gave my ring to my mother-in-law, in hopes that she would talk to him and he would come and give it back to me. I kinda forgot about it with all of the things that have happened. My ring was over 5k...I am so f**king stupid, why didn't I sell it, at least =( Just yesterday he left me 4 voice mails begging forgiveness, telling me how sorry he was, and how it wouldn't happen again ever. He's f**king with my mind :cry:

Does anyone have the number to Jerry Springer? maybe I can get on the show so Steve can hold me back when I go after this b**ch. I am reduced to Jerry Springer show material.


WTF? This idiot ***** is doing you a favor! The ring is just a thing... a tangible symbol of your connection to him... you want nothing to do with it or the money from it. He gave it to her? That's one more disconnection between you. Excellent. It's natural to want to hurt her by telling, but is your real goal revenge or freedom? The best revenge you can ever have is being happy without him... don't get drawn into this drama.

Go. pack up everything and leave. Go where he isn't, even if you take a loss.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:13 pm 
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I agree with The Keeper of the Pants 100%. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Australia is nice this time of year, and as of mid next week, I'll have an extra room. :neko:

We also have a very very big desert and many un-inhabited forests that people could disappear into. Added with the fact that I'm 5''7 and can reach his eyes if needed. Oh and there's free alcohol and girly gossip!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Just get a stun gun.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Get in touch with Serienya, she's in your part of the world and knows people, probably near to you, that could stomp your ex flat in seconds should the need arise. Hanging with the Society for Creative Anachronism gives you access to people with skill at inducing both sharp and blunt force trauma. Get Seri to take you to an event or two.

Though 911 works well most of the time, being around friendly to you large guys in odd clothes with strange weapons is good for the comfort level and very intimidating to anyone with even the slightest understanding of physics.

You also would not be the first friend of a friend SCA folks have watched out for. Your situation isn't all that uncommon, sadly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:24 am 
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Raell wrote:
Just get a stun gun.


Get a real gun or don't get a weapon. Stun guns don't incapacitate people for any longer than you apply the current. Some people might run after getting hit with one, but some many will just get pissed off.

Pepper spray is somewhat better because it persists, but some people are immune and there's real risk of spraying yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:15 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Raell wrote:
Just get a stun gun.


Get a real gun or don't get a weapon. Stun guns don't incapacitate people for any longer than you apply the current. Some people might run after getting hit with one, but some many will just get pissed off.

Pepper spray is somewhat better because it persists, but some people are immune and there's real risk of spraying yourself.



Good point but not everyone is ready to kill.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:25 am 
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You should install shovel racks around your house in visible locations with a variety of snow, sand, flat spade and other such tools. that alone should deter him.

For real, I think I'd buy a gun and learn to handle, shoot, clean and carry it for exactly the reason DE said.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:27 am 
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I've been to a gun range before..the kick from the gun almost knocked me on my butt. I don't have alot of upper body strength so I worry that he would take it away from me and use it on me. I can't really pack up and go..I used all my vacation time when I miscarried.
I saw a real estate agent to sell my house in the spring. The police are still doing
drive -bys, and I am being very cautious.

I can't tell you how much it touches me that you are all concerned and have me in your thoughts. Thank You so much. I'm not going to let him win and scare me, I'm going to sign up for a self defense class they are running at the Y. I will not let him run me out, it will be my decision when I leave!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:50 am 
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/huggles Kirra <3 to you!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:55 am 
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Admirable attitude Kirra. May you or your family never have cause to regret it.

My advice at this point is to go back to the gun range and try the smaller caliber weapons. I suspect someone, as a joke, gave you a weapon too big for you as a small woman and beginner. Did your ex take you there?

Talk to the range master and tell him of your experience in the past and that you want something without much of a kick so that you can develop some skill and not be afraid of the weapon.

Smaller caliber weapons may not have the stopping power of the larger caliber pistols, but a well placed shot can still maim, disable or kill the target. Center of mass shots tend to scramble the internal organs between the penetration and the hydrostatic shock. Smaller pistols are lighter and easier to move in a crisis situation. Smaller pistols and their ammunition also tend to be significantly less expensive than the big guns (not always, there are some very pricey small guns out there, leave them to when and if you develop a love for competition target shooting). The lower cost gives you more opportunity to afford practice sessions.

Even if you never have cause to use it in self defense, knowing how to handle a weapon and knowing that you can is a huge confidence builder. Hopefully this debris from your life will soon realize what an idiot he is being and go rot in a corner somewhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:56 am 
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Müs wrote:
/huggles Kirra <3 to you!


Let me get in on that. *hugglesKirra*

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Raell wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Raell wrote:
Just get a stun gun.


Get a real gun or don't get a weapon. Stun guns don't incapacitate people for any longer than you apply the current. Some people might run after getting hit with one, but some many will just get pissed off.

Pepper spray is somewhat better because it persists, but some people are immune and there's real risk of spraying yourself.



Good point but not everyone is ready to kill.


Then go with unarmed or pepper spray. If you're not prepared to kill, you need to be prepared to incapacitate. If not, don't fight.

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