The Glade 4.0

Diamondeye:

What do you consider the most violent organization in the United States?

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Give me a break. I think you are smart enough to understand what I am getting at.

Call it wishful thinking. I wish there were some way that children could be better protected from idiot parents. Sure life is not fair, but less so when defenseless children are subjected to the whims of their parents whether they are dangerous or not.

I know I can't have it both ways. Perhaps, as you suggested, there should be less laws against, say, punching someone in the face who lights up in a public place. Or maybe if people had more courage to speak up to the parent who they witness blowing smoke in their infant's face...

Diamondeye:

Eh, answer and give me your criteria.

The majority of posters in this thread should be ashamed of themselves. They should be appalled at their willingness to use government force to prevent other adults from making their own choice. I understand that the general opinion is that smoking is a vile, evil habit. I get that the majority know or have known someone who is dying from said habit. I understand that is has palpable and visceral negative effects, even if it never causes COPD or Lung Cancer in a particular individual. But, honestly, just another "think of the Children so we can ban something we don't like" thread isn't constructive. It's not even valid.

But god forbid someone say, Let's Regulate Homosexuality; Let's Regulate Polyamory; Let's Regulate Liberals; Let's Regulate Conservatives; Let's Regulate Driving even further; Let's Regulate Video Games ...

We need someone who will stand up and pop the **** out of that jackass in McDonald's who lit a cigarette.

Stop trying to use the government to enforce common sense.

The parent's right to smoke supersedes the right of schildren to be free of pollutants because there is no such thing as a right to be free of pollutants.

So, in your opinion, parents have the right to poison their children? And, in your opinion, children do not have the right to be free from being poisoned?

So, in your opinion, parents have the right to poison their children? And, in your opinion, children do not have the right to be free from being poisoned?

There are consequences to everything, and maybe, just maybe, if we let people suffer the consequences of their own actions without government intervention at every corner ... MAYBE people might get a clue.

* Breathing secondhand smoke for even a short time can have immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system, interfering with the normal functioning of the heart, blood, and vascular systems in ways that increase the risk of heart attack.
* Even a short time in a smoky room can cause your blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability.
* Persons who already have heart disease are at especially high risk of suffering adverse affects from breathing secondhand smoke, and should take special precautions to avoid even brief exposure.

Secondhand smoke can cause sudden infant death syndrome and other health consequences in infants and children.

* Smoking by women during pregnancy has been known for some time to cause SIDS.
* Infants who are exposed to secondhand smoke after birth are also at greater risk of SIDS.
* Children exposed to secondhand smoke are also at an increased risk for acute respiratory infections, ear problems, and more severe asthma. Smoking by parents causes respiratory symptoms and slows lung growth in their children.

* arsenic (a heavy metal toxin)
* benzene (a chemical found in gasoline)
* beryllium (a toxic metal)
* cadmium (a metal used in batteries)
* chromium (a metallic element)
* ethylene oxide (a chemical used to sterilize medical devices)
* nickel (a metallic element)
* polonium–210 (a chemical element that gives off radiation)
* vinyl chloride (a toxic substance used in plastics manufacture)

This is the most important statement made in this whole arguement. Let consequences fall and let people grow up.

Cigarettes are poison. Poisons do not need to act immediately to be considered a poison. That being said, inhaling second hand smoke has immediate or near immediate consequences for the body -





If you live with a smoker, your chances of developing lung cancer increase by 20-30 percent.

Is it poison? Here are just a few chemicals in second hand smoke -



Poison -

1. a substance with an inherent property that tends to destroy life or impair health.

If cigarette smoke does not qualify under the definition of what a poison is, I don't know what does. So, I ask you again - do parents have the right to poison their children, and do children have the right to be free from being poisoned?

It is the most acutely toxic substance known, with a median lethal dose of about 1 ng/kg when introduced intravenously[14] and 3 ng/kg when inhaled[15]. This means that, depending on the method of introduction into the body, a mere 90–270 nanograms of botulinum toxin could be enough to kill an average 90 kg (200 lb) person.

What logical fallacies, DFK? Don't be lazy and dismiss my argument - I'm right.

What is the definition of a poison? I listed that.

Does cigarette smoke qualify as a poison, under that definition? Yes.

Does second hand smoke deliver those toxins to those that breathe them? Yes.

Therefore, my question, the one you objected so strenuously to, stands. Do parents have the right to poison their children? If you smoke in the presence of other people, you *are* poisoning them. Don't I, as a person, have a right to not be poisoned?

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has classified secondhand smoke as a Group A carcinogen, which means it's known to cause cancer in humans.

Secondhand smoke has a marked effect on the health of infants and children. They're more vulnerable than adults are because they're still developing physically and generally have higher breathing rates, which means they may inhale greater quantities of secondhand smoke than adults do.

For children who live in households where someone smokes, the effects are worst during the child's first five years, since the child may spend the bulk of that time with a smoking parent or guardian. Ironically, infants are at the highest risk of secondhand smoke from their own mothers. A child who spends just one hour in a very smoky room is inhaling as many dangerous chemicals as if he or she smoked 10 or more cigarettes. And even when parents don't smoke at home or in the car, there can still be negative effects when children are exposed to the tobacco smoke pollution released from the clothing and hair of smoking parents.

Acetaldehyde
2-Acetylaminofluorene
Acrylamide
Acrylonitrile
Adriamycin® (Doxorubicin Hydrochloride)
Aflatoxins
Alcoholic Beverage Consumption
2-Aminoanthraquinone
o-Aminoazotoluene
4-Aminobiphenyl
1-Amino-2,4-dibromoanthraquinone
1-Amino-2-methylanthraquinone
Amitrole
o-Anisidine Hydrochloride
Arsenic Compounds, Inorganic
Asbestos Note: correction in Substance Profile (posted February 13, 2009)
Azacitidine
Azathioprine
Benzene
Benzidine and Dyes Metabolized to Benzidine
Benzidine
Dyes Metabolized to Benzidine
Benzotrichloride
Beryllium and Beryllium Compounds
Bromodichloromethane
2,2-bis(Bromomethyl)-1,3-propanediol (Technical Grade)
1,3-Butadiene
1,4-Butanediol Dimethylsulfonate (Myleran®)
Butylated Hydroxyanisole (BHA)
Cadmium and Cadmium Compounds
Carbon Tetrachloride
Ceramic Fibers (Respirable Size)
Chlorambucil
Chloramphenicol
Chlorendic Acid
Chlorinated Paraffins (C12, 60% Chlorine)
1-(2-Chloroethyl)-3-cyclohexyl-1-nitrosourea
1-(2-Chloroethyl)-3-(4-methylcyclohexyl)-1-nitrosourea
bis(Chloroethyl) Nitrosourea
Chloroform
bis(Chloromethyl) Ether and Technical-Grade Chloromethyl Methyl Ether
3-Chloro-2-methylpropene
4-Chloro-o-phenylenediamine
Chloroprene
p-Chloro-o-toluidine and p-Chloro-o-toluidine Hydrochloride
Chlorozotocin
Chromium Hexavalent Compounds
C.I. Basic Red 9 Monohydrochloride
Cisplatin
Coal Tars and Coal Tar Pitches
Cobalt Sulfate
Coke Oven Emissions
p-Cresidine
Cupferron
Cyclophosphamide
Cyclosporin A
Dacarbazine
Danthron (1,8-Dihydroxyanthraquinone)
2,4-Diaminoanisole Sulfate
2,4-Diaminotoluene
Diazoaminobenzene
1,2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane
1,2-Dibromoethane (Ethylene Dibromide)
2,3-Dibromo-1-propanol
tris(2,3-Dibromopropyl) Phosphate
1,4-Dichlorobenzene
3,3´-Dichlorobenzidine and 3,3´-Dichlorobenzidine Dihydrochloride
Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (DDT)
1,2-Dichloroethane (Ethylene Dichloride)
Dichloromethane (Methylene Chloride)
1,3-Dichloropropene (Technical Grade)
Diepoxybutane
Diesel Exhaust Particulates
Diethyl Sulfate
Diethylstilbestrol
Diglycidyl Resorcinol Ether
3,3´-Dimethoxybenzidine and Dyes Metabolized to 3,3´-Dimethoxybenzidine
3,3´-Dimethoxybenzidine
Dyes Metabolized to 3,3´-Dimethoxybenzidine
4-Dimethylaminoazobenzene
3,3´-Dimethylbenzidine and Dyes Metabolized to 3,3´-Dimethylbenzidine
3,3´-Dimethylbenzidine
Dyes Metabolized to 3,3´-Dimethylbenzidine
Dimethylcarbamoyl Chloride
1,1-Dimethylhydrazine
Dimethyl Sulfate
Dimethylvinyl Chloride
1,4-Dioxane
Disperse Blue 1
Epichlorohydrin
Erionite
Estrogens, Steroidal
Ethylene Oxide
Ethylene Thiourea
di(2-Ethylhexyl) Phthalate
Ethyl Methanesulfonate
Formaldehyde (Gas)
Furan
Glass Wool (Respirable Size)
Glycidol
Hepatitis B
Hepatitis C
Heterocyclic Amines
2-Amino-3,4-dimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline (MEIQ)
2-Amino-3,8-dimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoxaline (MEIQx)
2-Amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline (IQ)
2-Amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine (PhIP)
Hexachlorobenzene
Hexachloroethane
Hexamethylphosphoramide
Human Papillomaviruses: Some Genital-Mucosal Types
Hydrazine and Hydrazine Sulfate
Hydrazobenzene
Ionizing Radiation
X-Radiation and Gamma Radiation
Neutrons
Radon
Thorium Dioxide
Iron Dextran Complex
Isoprene
Kepone® (Chlordecone)
Lead and Lead Compounds
Lindane and Other Hexachlorocyclohexane Isomers
Melphalan
Methoxsalen with Ultraviolet A Therapy (PUVA)
2-Methylaziridine (Propylenimine)
4,4´-Methylenebis(2-chloroaniline)
4,4´-Methylenebis(N,N-dimethyl)benzenamine
4,4´-Methylenedianiline and its Dihydrochloride Salt
Methyleugenol
Methyl Methanesulfonate
N-Methyl-N´-nitro-N-nitrosoguanidine
Metronidazole
Michler's Ketone (4,4'-(Dimethylamino)benzophenone)
Mineral Oils (Untreated and Mildly Treated)
Mirex
Mustard Gas
Naphthalene
2-Naphthylamine
Nickel Compounds and Metallic Nickel
Nickel Compounds
Metallic Nickel
Nitrilotriacetic Acid
o-Nitroanisole
Nitroarenes (selected)
1,6-Dinitropyrene
1,8-Dinitropyrene
6-Nitrochrysene
1-Nitropyrene
4-Nitropyrene
Nitrobenzene
Nitrofen (2,4-Dichlorophenyl-p-nitrophenyl Ether)
Nitrogen Mustard Hydrochloride
Nitromethane
2-Nitropropane
N-Nitrosodi-n-butylamine
N-Nitrosodiethanolamine
N-Nitrosodiethylamine
N-Nitrosodimethylamine
N-Nitrosodi-n-propylamine
N-Nitroso-N-ethylurea
4-(N-Nitrosomethylamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone
N-Nitroso-N-methylurea
N-Nitrosomethylvinylamine
N-Nitrosomorpholine
N-Nitrosonornicotine
N-Nitrosopiperidine
N-Nitrosopyrrolidine
N-Nitrososarcosine
Norethisterone
Ochratoxin A
4,4´-Oxydianiline
Oxymetholone
Phenacetin and Analgesic Mixtures Containing Phenacetin
Phenacetin
Analgesic Mixtures Containing Phenacetin
Phenazopyridine Hydrochloride
Phenolphthalein
Phenoxybenzamine Hydrochloride
Phenytoin
Polybrominated Biphenyls (PBBs)
Polychlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs)
Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons, 15 Listings
Benz[a]anthracene
Benzo[b]fluoranthene
Benzo[j]fluoranthene
Benzo[k]fluoranthene
Benzo[a]pyrene
Dibenz[a,h]acridine
Dibenz[a,j]acridine
Dibenz[a,h]anthracene
7H-Dibenzo[c,g]carbazole
Dibenzo[a,e]pyrene
Dibenzo[a,h]pyrene
Dibenzo[a,i]pyrene
Dibenzo[a,l]pyrene
Indeno[1,2,3-cd]pyrene
5-Methylchrysene
Procarbazine Hydrochloride
Progesterone
1,3-Propane Sultone
ß-Propiolactone
Propylene Oxide
Propylthiouracil
Reserpine
Safrole
Selenium Sulfide
Silica, Crystalline (Respirable Size)
Soots
Streptozotocin
Strong Inorganic Acid Mists Containing Sulfuric Acid
Styrene-7,8-oxide
Sulfallate
Tamoxifen
2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD); "Dioxin"
Tetrachloroethylene (Perchloroethylene)
Tetrafluoroethylene
Tetranitromethane
Thioacetamide
4,4´-Thiodianiline
Thiotepa
Thiourea
Tobacco Related Exposures
Environmental Tobacco Smoke
Smokeless Tobacco
Tobacco Smoking
Toluene Diisocyanate
o-Toluidine and o-Toluidine Hydrochloride
Toxaphene
Trichloroethylene
2,4,6-Trichlorophenol
1,2,3-Trichloropropane
Ultraviolet Radiation Related Exposures
Solar Radiation
Sunlamps or Sunbeds, Exposure to
Broad-Spectrum Ultraviolet (UV) Radiation
Ultraviolet A Radiation
Ultraviolet B Radiation
Ultraviolet C Radiation
Urethane
Vinyl Bromide
Vinyl Chloride
4-Vinyl-1-cyclohexene Diepoxide
Vinyl Fluoride
Wood Dust

There are consequences to everything, and maybe, just maybe, if we let people suffer the consequences of their own actions without government intervention at every corner ... MAYBE people might get a clue.

I think I've got the point ya'll.
I still don't like it, and I still don't agree with it, but I do understand where you guys are coming from.

I think I've got the point ya'll.
I still don't like it, and I still don't agree with it, but I do understand where you guys are coming from.