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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Raziel6K wrote:
... but we are who we are.


Rastafarian ninjas?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:30 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Raziel6K wrote:
... but we are who we are.


Rastafarian ninjas?


Rastafarian pirate ninjas, try that one on!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Holy butt-probe, Batman!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:58 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... g-funding/

senate votes to cut funding to ACORN, by a large majority. a rogue minority of senators disagree

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Looks like the people who filmed this may very well have committed a felony. Maryland law makes it illegal to record conversations without consent of all parties involved.

From the Maryland Attourney General's office -

"“Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent . . . If it is determined that the audio portion now being heard on YouTube was illegally obtained, it is also illegal under Maryland Law to willfully use or willfully disclose the content of said audio. The penalty for the unlawful interception, disclosure or use of it is a felony punishable up to 5 years.”

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:40 pm 
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If that's against the law, it's a really, really stupid law in just about every possible respect. That said, lots of places have some really stupid laws, so that's certainly a possibility.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:44 pm 
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It's a privacy law, and a felony in the state. I find it kind of ironic that in their attempt at "gotcha" journalism (which by the way, is in no way set in stone. The tape is heavily altered, and may involve voice overs. Note also how old the tape is - they have been sitting on this for a while) may well land them in a Maryland court house.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:55 pm 
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Monte wrote:
It's a privacy law, and a felony in the state. I find it kind of ironic that in their attempt at "gotcha" journalism (which by the way, is in no way set in stone. The tape is heavily altered, and may involve voice overs. Note also how old the tape is - they have been sitting on this for a while) may well land them in a Maryland court house.


Indeed. I'm not commenting on whether or not it's actually against the law. I'm stating if it is, it's a stupid privacy law.

If it's heavily altered and can be proven to be so, it's also Slander/Libel, which is grounds for a civil lawsuit. (And that's a law I can get behind.)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:59 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Looks like the people who filmed this may very well have committed a felony. Maryland law makes it illegal to record conversations without consent of all parties involved.

From the Maryland Attourney General's office -

"“Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent . . . If it is determined that the audio portion now being heard on YouTube was illegally obtained, it is also illegal under Maryland Law to willfully use or willfully disclose the content of said audio. The penalty for the unlawful interception, disclosure or use of it is a felony punishable up to 5 years.”


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False Assumption #1: Maryland law prohibits the "taping" or "recording" of conversations without the consent of all persons.

The Truth #1: Maryland law prohibits the "interception" of "communications" without the consent of all persons to the communication and does not even mention "taping" or "recording" anywhere in the part of the statute related to criminal violations.

Explanation #1: Maryland law states the following verbatim:

Unlawful acts. -- Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle it is unlawful for any person to:
(1) Willfully intercept, endeavor to intercept, or procure any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire, oral, or electronic communication;

(2) Willfully disclose, or endeavor to disclose, to any other person the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, oral, or electronic communication in violation of this subtitle; or

(3) Willfully use, or endeavor to use, the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, oral, or electronic communication in violation of this subtitle. Cts. & Jud. Proc. §10-402(a)(1)-(a)(3). (emphasis added)

Nowhere in the law are the words "tape" or "record" ever used.


http://www.rightgrrl.com/tripp/woods.html

Further:
Quote:
Without a prohibited interception device being used under prohibited circumstances there is no "intercept" and therefore no violation of the statute.

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Last edited by Müs on Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:01 am 
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Talya wrote:
Monte wrote:
It's a privacy law, and a felony in the state. I find it kind of ironic that in their attempt at "gotcha" journalism (which by the way, is in no way set in stone. The tape is heavily altered, and may involve voice overs. Note also how old the tape is - they have been sitting on this for a while) may well land them in a Maryland court house.


Indeed. I'm not commenting on whether or not it's actually against the law. I'm stating if it is, it's a stupid privacy law.


Maybe, but for one thing it's a state-to-state thing, not a Federal law.


Consider this, though: should an individual be able to call you on the phone and record the conversation without you knowing? What about on the street? What about in your place of business? In your home?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:06 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Consider this, though: should an individual be able to call you on the phone and record the conversation without you knowing? What about on the street?


Yes, taping their own phone conversations without letting the other person know, absolutely.
Yes, taping someone on the street by wearing a wire while talking to you.

Expectation of privacy isn't there. You're talking to the person, they can record/broadcast it all they want.

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What about in your place of business?


This is trickier. It would depend on many things.

Quote:
In your home?


Are they in my home? If not, it's bugging/wire tapping, which generally is illegal and probably should remain so, without a warrant. Expectation of privacy is suddenly high.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:12 am 
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Talya wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Consider this, though: should an individual be able to call you on the phone and record the conversation without you knowing? What about on the street?


Yes, taping their own phone conversations without letting the other person know, absolutely.


Why do you believe that?


Talya wrote:
Yes, taping someone on the street by wearing a wire while talking to you.


I agree.

Talya wrote:
DFK! wrote:
What about in your place of business?


This is trickier. It would depend on many things.


Would you give me some examples?

Talya wrote:
DFK! wrote:
In your home?


Are they in my home? If not, it's bugging/wire tapping, which generally is illegal and probably should remain so, without a warrant. Expectation of privacy is suddenly high.


Presume that they're also in your home.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:41 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Talya wrote:

Yes, taping their own phone conversations without letting the other person know, absolutely.


Why do you believe that?


The moment you divulge information to someone else, without some agreement of confidentiality, you are forfeiting any expectation of privacy. They could tell anyone. Recording a conversation just provides more credibility to what they are telling people.

DFK! wrote:

Would you give me some examples?


In a place of business, what's the pretense? In a lot of cases, recording conversations inside a private environment like this requires breaking some laws even to get to the recording stage, without worrying about whether it's illegal. However, if you invite them in and shoot the breeze, and they're "wearing a wire", your humped. On the other hand, if they're pretending to be a printer repairman and eavesdropping, they're crossing that expectation of privacy line, and trespassing to boot.

Talya wrote:
Presume that they're also in your home.


Once again, if you invite them, and talk to them, you're opening yourself up to not having a reasonable expectation of privacy.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:50 am 
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Senate Votes to Defund ACORN Housing

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) – The Senate voted Monday to block the Housing and Urban Development Department from giving grants to ACORN, a community organization under fire in several voter-registration fraud cases.The 83-7 vote would deny housing and community grant funding to ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.


So it begins.


ACORN mulls suit against Fox News

Oh please, please sue. Their whole organization will be destroyed in discovery.

Quote:
“It is clear that the videos are doctored, edited, and in no way the result of the fabricated story being portrayed by conservative activist ‘filmmaker’ O’Keefe and his partner in crime,’ ACORN chief organizer Bertha Lewis said in a statement over the weekend. “And, in fact, a crime it was—our lawyers believe a felony—and we will be taking legal action against Fox and their co-conspirators.”


Hmmm...

Quote:
After the videos surfaced two ACORN employees in Baltimore and two others at the Washington office of the off-shoot housing corporation, a separate organization, were fired.

“I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the workers depicted in the video,” Lewis said in her statement. She added that the “scam,” was also attempted but failed at other ACORN offices in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, and Philadelphia.


So, which is it? Fabricated story, or you can't defend their actions? Lol

Quote:
Breitbart said Monday that the release of a new video from Brooklyn disproved ACORN’s claims that the activists made failed attempts in other cities.

“ACORN was wrong in their initial defense that it succeeded in only one place because obviously it worked in a second and third place,” he said. “Their defense is as hapless as the behavior witnessed on those videos. This is clearly an organization in internal turmoil over James and Hannah’s exposure.


D'oh!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:18 am 
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Monte wrote:
The tape is heavily altered, and may involve voice overs.

The film maker has offered up the original tapes and files for verification the film isn't altered, so that is a pretty bold statement you are parroting. Because ACORN said it is so, does not in fact make it true.

I'd personally wait for some independent review before making such accusations.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:24 am 
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Yeah, it's become obvious that the reason they sat on the videos was to accumulate more of them, so the "well, it's just one guy" thing wouldn't work. "Oh, it's just one guy? Well, here's another." "Oh, it didn't work in the other places we tried, like New York (thanks for naming that one!)? Here you go..."

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Monte wrote:
It's a privacy law, and a felony in the state. I find it kind of ironic that in their attempt at "gotcha" journalism (which by the way, is in no way set in stone. The tape is heavily altered, and may involve voice overs. Note also how old the tape is - they have been sitting on this for a while) may well land them in a Maryland court house.



While they are at it, they should review if ACORN has permits to operate in Maryland. I really hope ACORN has their ducks in order before they try bullying people. That being said, since they are a big corporate entity, shouldn't the fringe left be slavering to garnish their wages/bonuses/exorberant salaries?!?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Yeah, it's become obvious that the reason they sat on the videos was to accumulate more of them, so the "well, it's just one guy" thing wouldn't work. "Oh, it's just one guy? Well, here's another." "Oh, it didn't work in the other places we tried, like New York (thanks for naming that one!)? Here you go..."


You say it didn't work in the California office? Guess what? Heeeeres California!
[youtube]7s8w9GEpSzw[/youtube]

Any other excuses, places it didn't work? Still going with the "It only worked in one...no, two...no, three...no, it only worked in four places" line?

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Sting gotcha bark bark bark!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Yeah, it's become obvious that the reason they sat on the videos was to accumulate more of them, so the "well, it's just one guy" thing wouldn't work. "Oh, it's just one guy? Well, here's another." "Oh, it didn't work in the other places we tried, like New York (thanks for naming that one!)? Here you go..."


You say it didn't work in the California office? Guess what? Heeeeres California!
[youtube]7s8w9GEpSzw[/youtube]

Any other excuses, places it didn't work? Still going with the "It only worked in one...no, two...no, three...no, it only worked in four places" line?



Wow thats just getting embarrasing for ACORN. Wonder how the shell game of blame will be handled? Since the problem seems to be not just regional.

It's amusing that Obama now wants to distance himself from ACORN, yet paid them to do voter registrations, was an attorney for them, and extolled their virtues in a few speeches when the first allegations of fraud came out. Of course McCain also was up on stage supporting them. Heres an oldie from 2008...
Obama shields ACORN from Criminal Prosecution in the Economic Crisis

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By Marinka Peschmann, Special to Canada Free Press Tuesday, October 14, 2008
Not only did Senator Barack Obama’s presidential campaign pay more than U.S. $800,000 to a front of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform, Now, ACORN, currently under investigation in a dozen States for voter registration fraud and bribery schemes, for “get-out-the-vote-efforts”; Obama co-sponsored legislation called the “Helping Families Save their Homes in Bankruptcy Act of 2007”—that was supported by ACORN and protects them.

Helping Families Save their Homes in Bankruptcy Act, S.2136, was introduced in the Senate by Illinois Senator Richard Durbin over a year ago, on October 3, 2007. It was co-sponsored, by Obama and 12 other Democrats, including Vice Presidential hopeful, Joe Biden, and Chairman of the Senate Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee, Senator Christopher Dodd.

According to a Senate transcript, Durbin stated: “It is true that some families knowingly stretched a bit to buy more house than they should have. But many families were sold mortgages they couldn’t afford by unscrupulous brokers… This bill is supported by the AARP, ACORN, AFL-CIO and SEIU, the Center for Responsible Lending, the Consumer Federation of America, NAACP and La Raza, the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, the National Community Reinvestment Coalition…”

Why would groups like ACORN, who according to Stanley Kurtz’s “O Dangerous Pals” undermined “the US economy by pushing the banking system into a sinkhole of bad loans…. by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in “subprime” loans to often un-creditworthy poor and minority customers…” support this legislation? Perhaps because it provides Chapter 13 Bankruptcy protections to homeowners who didn’t have the means to buy homes, and it protects people who put those borrowers into these high-risk mortgages.

Durbin’s bill, co-sponsored by Obama, “amends federal bankruptcy law to permit a bankruptcy plan to: modify a [mortgage] secured by the principal residence of a chapter 13 debtor…” It “exempts” them “from the requirement for credit counseling if… that debtor…has been scheduled” for foreclosure. The credit counseling typically distinguishes debtors who, for instance, because of unforeseen medical bills have no alternatives but bankruptcy, from debtors who’ve recklessly or ruthlessly bought homes they couldn’t afford because, according to the Federal Trade Commission, it evaluates a person’s financial situation and discusses alternatives to avoid filing bankruptcy. If this bill becomes law, the “certificate of completion” a debtor receives after the credit counseling process would be waived. Anyone, with a single home, could file Chapter 13 Bankruptcy.

One benefit for filing Chapter 13 is a person is protected from creditors and allowed to keep their real estate and personal property. Another advantage is some debts are discharged that otherwise wouldn’t be under other Bankruptcy Chapters, such as fraud judgments.

Under Chapter 13, the monthly payments are determined by the amount a debtor can afford after paying normal living expenses. That amount is dispersed among their creditors typically “over 3-years” but no more than “5-years.” At the end, the debtor is discharged from their debts, regardless of how much their creditors were paid and the remaining debt is sloughed off eventually underwritten by taxpayers.

This bill goes further than what Obama or Sen. John McCain have proposed to keep homeowners in their homes because it also protects the middle men.

Notice now, another key reason why groups like ACORN support this legislation because it: “Prohibits the court from allowing a claim that is subject to any remedy for damages or rescission due to failure to comply with the Truth in Lending Act or any other state or federal consumer protection law.”

The Truth in Lending Act (TILA) was designed to create “economic stabilization and competition by informed use of credit by consumers (emphasis added).” Under TILA the law also applies “to persons who are not creditors but who provide applications for home equity plans to consumers.” This bill absolves organizations of any guilt or culpability under TILA; perhaps the same organizations who intimidated and bullied banks into providing risky loans to unqualified borrowers like ACORN.

If this legislation does not pass, then these “persons who are not creditors,” could face “criminal penalties” for “willful and knowing violations of TILA,” which could result in a “fine of $5,000, imprisonment for up to one year, or both.”

But there’s more. The Department of Housing and Urban Development reportedly found that “five million illegal aliens hold illegal mortgages.” Who arranged these illegal mortgages?

The Helping Families Save their Homes in Bankruptcy Act is not unique legislation that helps community organizers, and other special interest outreach groups, like ACORN. As reported here Obama’s Citizenship Promotion Act “organizes the immigrant community” by using U.S. $80 million taxpayer dollars for outreach programs targeted at immigrants and future voters.

No wonder ACORN has close ties and endorses some politicians. Durbin’s “Helping Families Save their Homes in Bankruptcy Act,” co-sponsored by Obama, was referred to the Senate Judiciary.
Update: Since I reported on the Helping Families Save their Homes in Bankruptcy Act, the bill has been amended and the section called “Disallowing Claims from violations of consumer Protection laws” has been struck out.
_________________________________________________________________-

Wow some of those names I bolded seem to have come up a few times in recent headlines..... Politics does make for strange bedfellows I guess.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:52 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,550562,00.html


4TH Times the charm? I wonder how many until they send the memo...stop offering advice on prostitution!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Hannibal wrote:

It's amusing that Obama now wants to distance himself from ACORN, yet paid them to do voter registrations, was an attorney for them, and extolled their virtues in a few speeches when the first allegations of fraud came out.


It's Obama's standard tactic: Follow his ideological plan blatantly believing he's untouchable (and with the liberal media not willing to come up for air for fear that someone else will take their spot at the Presidential ShaftTM it's worked far too long), and when the heat gets too strong - distance, disavow and deny - or, if all else fails, have someone to fall on their sword.

William Ayers
Rev. Wright
Tony Rezko
Van Jones
ACORN
SEIU
Mazen Asbahi
Rashid Khalidi
Jennifer Mason
Samantha Powers
Cass Sunstein
Jim Johnson
Tom Daschle
Nancy Killefer
Timothy Geithner
John Holdren
Timothy Geithner

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You said Geithner twice. :p

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I ummm, meant to do that - yeah, because, ummm, he's a Tax cheat and he's in charge of the IRS - yeah, that's why I did it.

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Vindicarre wrote:
I ummm, meant to do that - yeah, because, ummm, he's a Tax cheat and he's in charge of the IRS - yeah, that's why I did it.



It was an honest accounting error. You promise you'll deduct him soon.

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