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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Ladas wrote:
I'm curious about the claims of "heavily edited"... being able to make such a claim implies that one knows the actual contents of "unedited" tapes prior to editing, or has alternate sources for what really transpired to compare/contrast with what was released.


The claim of heavy editing is not unsubstantiated. It's been examined by experts, and they concluded that the content of the video was heavily edited - both what was said and what you saw. I noticed, in my own watching, that the way their mouths were moving wasn't matching what was being said in the subtitles. There are also discrepencies between what is being said on the tape and the transcript.

Like I said from the beginning - this was a hack job. It's clear the perpetrator was more than willing to lie, cheat, and steal his way to get a sensationalist story and some fame. Hopefully, he'll be doing 10 years in a federal prison for his trouble.



Proof. You're say so carries zero weight.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:37 pm 
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What "experts" and what "heavy editing" did they discover?

OR to put it another way... link it, or it didn't happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Ladas wrote:
I'm curious about the claims of "heavily edited"... being able to make such a claim implies that one knows the actual contents of "unedited" tapes prior to editing, or has alternate sources for what really transpired to compare/contrast with what was released.


The claim of heavy editing is not unsubstantiated. It's been examined by experts, and they concluded that the content of the video was heavily edited - both what was said and what you saw. I noticed, in my own watching, that the way their mouths were moving wasn't matching what was being said in the subtitles. There are also discrepencies between what is being said on the tape and the transcript.

Like I said from the beginning - this was a hack job. It's clear the perpetrator was more than willing to lie, cheat, and steal his way to get a sensationalist story and some fame. Hopefully, he'll be doing 10 years in a federal prison for his trouble.


Nice job selectively addressing what was posited. It's convenient to ignore the second half of the post especially since it levies heavy fire on what you just wrote.

Ladas wrote:
One would think, assuming they weren't just parroting unsubstantiated claims for blogs, that if that were in fact the case and not just a claim to deflect attention, those sources would be make public, or at least made a reference to support such charges.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:53 pm 
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I'm thinking Farsky is our resident expert on video editing and processing, (I might be wrong). Generally from what I can recall of video there' are tracking marks involved that show where cuts and edits were made. Any good video person would be able to identify where the edits occurred.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Wow, it's hard to find nonpartisan summaries of the whole ACORN mess.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:26 pm 
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This study was kinda interesting...

"Manipulating the Public Agenda: Why ACORN Was in the News, and What the News Got Wrong"

I found it at http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/27-10, which I guess got it from Huffington Post - I'm trying to verify its claims.

Quote:
Last month, facts exonerating ACORN began to emerge. On December 7 an independent report by Scott Harshbarger, the former Massachusetts Attorney General and former president of Common Cause, cleared ACORN of any illegal conduct. The report stated, "While some of the advice and counsel given by ACORN employees and volunteers was clearly inappropriate and unprofessional, we did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff; in fact, there is no evidence that action, illegal or otherwise, was taken by any ACORN employee on behalf of the videographers." His report also noted that the videos were doctored and misleading.

"The videos that have been released appear to have been edited, in some cases substantially, including the insertion of a substitute voice-over for significant portions of Mr. O'Keefe's and Ms. Giles's comments, which makes it difficult to determine the questions to which ACORN employees are responding. A comparison of the publicly available transcripts to the released videos confirms that large portions of the original video have been omitted from the released versions."


and

Quote:
Soon after Harshbarger refuted the charges of financial wrongdoing and voter fraud against ACORN, a nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS) report released on December 22 found no evidence of voter fraud associated with ACORN and "no instances in which ACORN violated the terms of federal funding in the last five years." Moreover, the report found that the two conservative activists who secretly videotaped conversations with ACORN workers and distributed those recordings on the Web without their consent violated laws in Maryland and California. CRS also noted that as of October 2009, ACORN had been subjected to at least forty-six federal, state, and local investigations, with only eleven still outstanding. Only one state, Nevada, brought charges against ACORN, under an ambiguous law that prohibited paying staff to register voters.


EDIT: Hmmm... looks like Harshbarger's report was from an internal investigation at ACORN. Back to square one...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Just because the findings came from an internal report doesn't mean they are somehow tainted. He had a lot of bad things to say about ACORN, their management strategies, etc.

The original videos were supposed to have been posted in an unedited form by our friend O'Keefe, but that never actually happened.

The videos don't match the transcripts, which is another red flag that they have been edited.

Either way, the fact that O'Keefe is the kind of person that would illegally trespass on federal property and attempt to bug a Senator's phone leads one to conclude that his original hit piece on ACORN may not be entirely above board, or anywhere near the board for that matter.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Or it may just be that the fame from his actions against ACORN caused an overinflated ego and sense of invicibility, and much like crack he needed a bigger "hit".

It's the whole "don't ascribe to malice" thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Just because the findings came from an internal report doesn't mean they are somehow tainted. He had a lot of bad things to say about ACORN, their management strategies, etc.

The original videos were supposed to have been posted in an unedited form by our friend O'Keefe, but that never actually happened.

The videos don't match the transcripts, which is another red flag that they have been edited.

Either way, the fact that O'Keefe is the kind of person that would illegally trespass on federal property and attempt to bug a Senator's phone leads one to conclude that his original hit piece on ACORN may not be entirely above board, or anywhere near the board for that matter.



Again, proof or you really need to not keep saying this over and over.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:15 am 
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Monte wrote:
Just because the findings came from an internal report doesn't mean they are somehow tainted. He had a lot of bad things to say about ACORN, their management strategies, etc.


True, but it would be nice to have confirmation from a reputable external source so that this can be fact checked.

EDIT: Speaking as someone who does research professionally and heraldically, that is. I didn't dismiss the report out of hand, but it gives it a bit higher burden of proof.

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