The Glade 4.0

For us, that's true. But China has a command economy, and could likely put it's massive labor force to work on building a ship in considerably less time.

Ok so they have warm bodies to weld steel. Great.

That doesn't design the carrier. That doesn't work out the problems of propulsion, weight, ammunition storage, aviation fuel storage, takeoff and landing systems such as catapults or ski-jump decks and arrestors.

It doesn't give NCOs the experience they need to safely handle operations on a carrier deck, nor officers the proper doctrine and experience to manage carrier combat operations.

It doesn't provide doctrine for employing the carrier and its escorts against a myriad of possible scenarios

It doesn't catch their technology up to ours in terms of electronics, navigation, guidance, fire control, etc.

Tell me Monty, how many air engagement channels does a PLAN destroyer have? How many missile does it take to saturate them?

That is *one* of their advantages, yes.

Are you saying that China's labor force doesn't have the same value in terms of human capital? That their scientists would not be able to do that (or that they don't already know how we do it)? they are currently kicking our *** when it comes to green-energy innovation.

I certainly don't have that information, but my guess is that China's military leaders *do*.

1) "Green energy innovation" is a meaningless term,

and how they're "kicking our *** in it" is equally so; this is just vague nonsense

2) The ability to make "green energy" doesn't mean the ability to make a large, modern navy in a short time.

3) Who cares what the "value in terms of human capital" is? Obviously their scientists can figure out how to physically construct an aircraft carrier, but we're talking about a 70,000 ton plus vessel with hundreds of thousands of moving parts. Even if they know how we do it (which they do to some degree since everyone knows what our carriers look like) that doesn't mean that they don't have design challanges.

Have you noticed, for example, that they don't have the same airplanes we do? That means they have to design everything to work with their airplanes. Just copying a design won't work.

Well duh, of course they do. And they know that it's insufficient to protect a large carrier or amphibious force from a massed missile attack.

Do you even know what an air engagement channel is? What missile saturation is and how it works?

No. You don't. You know nothing of the complexities China would face and are trying to handwave it away with nonsense about waterboarding, green energy, and veiled allegations that there's some racism agains the Chinese for pointing out technical problems.

Uh, no it isn't. Green energy innovation is the construction and development of new technologies as they relate to environmentally friendly means of energy production. It's not a meaningless term. It has a clear definition.

Actually, it's pretty specific.

Your lack of understanding does not change the facts.

Competitive loans available in China have made solar power a less expensive option. As a result, more companies and investors are entering the market. Suntech itself just overtook Germany’s Q-cells solar power manufacturer, and now is steadily gaining on the market leader, Tempe, Arizona’s First Solar.

So in other words they aren't kicking our asses, they're catching up to us in one specific area.



I never said it did.

You don't think they can handle it? Are they somehow inherently less qualified than us?

Yes, but that's not the focus of their economy at present. Were they able to focus their economy on warfare, I dare say you would not be so flippant about their capabilities. Currently, China is allocating their resources towards different goals. Those resources don't go away if China decides to change gears. Yes, that would take time. However, once that machine got rolling, it would be pretty spooky.

How is that even remotely relevant?

I may not, but the Chinese most certainly do. Do you think they are not doing this because they lack the ability, or because they have concluded that other uses for their resources are more in their interest?

• China has cornered the global rare earth element market and is now increasingly also becoming the world’s major manufacturer of the advanced technologies that depend on rare earth elements in order to function – technologies that are critical for a non-fossil fuel based economy. Advanced batteries, electric motors, super-conductors, critical electronic components such as resistors, capacitators and so forth depend on various rare earth elements and China is leveraging its preeminent position as a producer of rare earths to become a major manufacturer of all of these advanced green economy technologies.

• China is targeting more of its stimulus money to green economy initiatives than the US. It is directing 34% of its stimulus spending to green economy initiatives versus less than 20% for US stimulus spending.

• China has surged ahead of the US in solar PV manufacturing capacity and now has more than five times the installed production capacity.

• China has more than tripled its target for wind power capacity to 100 gigawatts by 2020, likely making it the world’s fastest growing market for wind energy technology. It is aiming for an annual growth rate of 20% per year.

• China currently has 12 gigawatts of installed wind power, but that is set to grow to 20 gigawatts by next year. To put this in perspective this is around three times the projected increase in capacity (7GW) in the US for wind energy.

• Last year, China invested $35 billion in Smart Grid construction far out pacing US investment in upgrading its own aging and over taxed grid.

• China already is the biggest solar thermal market worldwide. Three out of four collectors are produced and installed there and its domestic market has grown at an average rate of 28% per year in recent years. To give an idea of the size of its domestic market the newly installed capacity in 2008 for solar heating systems was approximately 21 GWth; that is around 16 times greater than the European market as a whole and 130 times than new added solar heating capacity in the US.

• Premiere Hu has pledged before a world audience to rapidly reduce the Carbon intensity of China’s economy and its total greenhouse gas emissions. While many did criticize the speech for its lack of specific numbers it is a very public commitment and China’s rapid adoption of green technology and enforcement of strict efficiency standards backs it up.

• China already has strict fuel efficiency standards in place right now (in effect since 2008) They are: 43 mpg for cars and 21 mpg for heaver trucks. Compare that to the snail pace fuel efficiency track the US is on.

• China has abundant capital reserves to finance a transformation of its economy away from dependence on fossil energy.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

http://greeneconomypost.com/greening-china-surpass-america-4782.htm

Do you have cause to dispute those claims?

In other news, Monty gets his *** kicked on military matters, gets pwned by his own link (again) and cites an unsourced article which uses significant loaded language to try to shift the topic to green energy.

Yes. They're from a blogger with an obvious agenda, and replete with loaded language. Since you won't accept anything from, say, FOX News, you should really be willing to provide an unbiased source.

Not so much. Look again, please. Would you like to find even more corroborating articles, or are you simply going to ignore them in favor of your epeen-stroking "pwnd" theory?

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Not so much. Look again, please. Would you like to find even more corroborating articles, or are you simply going to ignore them in favor of your epeen-stroking "pwnd" theory?

pssst- you are not a military expert. What is your rank? What degree do you have in military history, tactics, etc? Or are you just another ideological armchair general that sounds great on the internet, but would pale in comparison to an *actual* military expert? Are you a West Point grad? If so, what place in your class? Are you widely sought out as an instructor on these matters? Have you been published?

It's not my fault he's seemingly unable to simply accept reality so long as I'm the one pointing it out. Again, orange jam.

The Green Economy Post is not the New York Times, Montegue.

Yes. They're from a blogger with an obvious agenda, and replete with loaded language. Since you won't accept anything from, say, FOX News, you should really be willing to provide an unbiased source.

I read the first page of the NYT article you linked on Wind Turbines and didn't need to finish by 1/3 of the page to see that it doesn't support your position, and 2/3 of that page to hit 3 different planks of your chosen party that get undermined by the actions of the Chinese government.

DE: You've convinced me. Let's start dismantling the standing army. We'll keep the marines, navy, air force, nat'l guard, and coast guard. We'll also amplify state guard programs.

So you have no *actual* cause, just a cheap excuse?

We don't need to stay ahead in energy arbitrarily defined as "green". We just need adequate energy supplies.