The Glade 4.0

On the bright side, with a brother, you can just punch them in the face to resolve issues.

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This is the best thing that you can do. It is by far the best thing for your son.

If (when in this case I'm afraid) your mother drops guilt on you, repeat what I just said.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

Blast it with radiation, chemicals and if all else fails, a surgical excision.

I think Elmo has the radiation and the chemicals.

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Holy shitsnacks!

I suspect the same also holds for in-laws.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

It's not quite the same. With brothers, the face punching as a method of negotiation tends to be an equitable dispute resolution mechanism, with multiple cases of historical precedent. In-laws, not so much.

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I want inlaws where Rochambeau (Eric Cartman style) or head butting like rams are acceptable resolutions techniques.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

I don't know dude...I've heard of some mother-in-laws having a steel pair....would hate to see someone go down like that....

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Next shot fired tomorrow morning at around 0700 EDT

When neither Oonagh nor I show up at my parents house with baby in tow (Wed. and Thurs. are (were) their days to watch the baby), I expect more **** to hit the already excrement encrusted fan.

I have yet not communicated with either of them since Thursday morning. As odd as it sounds among all of this, I think that they expect nothing is changed with the babysitting arrangements despite the falling-out.

If nothing else, this statement will be heard loud and clear. They will get the message that we aren't toying around anymore.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

At this point in the conversation it's best to slam your fist on the table and yell SHUT THE **** UP as loudly as you can directly at them.

I'm not being a smartass. When people go down this road, it's best to just be as belligerant (in a nonphysical way) as possible, and just shout them down by not letting THEM get a word in edgewise and doing it more loudly than they are.

If they start chiding you for being disrespectful, tell them as loudly, obnoxiously, and with as much profanity as possible that you're damn right you're being disrespectful, you're doing it on purpose, and they'll get no respect until they act like they deserve it. Tell them you don't give a **** that they're your parents, you're laying down the law and it's YOUR way or the highway. Don't argue. Don't let them argue. If they try, the answer is "what did I just say? Did I **** stutter? ENGLISH ****! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!"

No amount of mental illness and manipulation can resist a direct frontal assault (nonphysical, remember!) in this way. You're not letting yourself be manipulated because as soon as they start talking, you're shouting them down until the responses from them are basically "Yes sir" or "No sir." What you're going for is a verbal "brute force" approach. Just keep adding more decibels until they get the point.

You may feel like a heel afterwards, but don't talk yourself out of this. Call everyone else involved in the situation and tell them exactly what happened too, so your parents can't start inventing a different story.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Diamondeye:

Yeah, I have tried that route. Usually I give up before getting as LOUD and belligerent as you have outlined. It becomes clear that I can't make her understand that I am not a little child anymore and she only thinks that I(we) are arguing with her and disrespecting her.

In the face of this, I give up because I don't see anything productive coming out of a shouting match. I shout, she tells me that I need to lower my voice. I tell her to shut the F*** up, she tells me to stop cursing and not to talk to her that way.

I don't know how else to communicate with her, that is why I am seeing a counselor tonight. I need professional help and insight.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

That's where you tell her that you don't need to lower your voice, you don't need to stop using profanity (inserting as much as possible in the process), and that if she opens her mouth again with ANY kind parentlike admonishment, you're leaving/she can get the hell out of your house, and that when she stops acting like a selfish, manipulative *****, you'll talk to her like an adult again.

Trust me, this worked for me, although my problem wasn't exactly the same as yours. If it doesn't actually work (as in, doesn't get her to behave) at least you won't have been manipulated throughout the conversation.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I agree with Diamondeye 100%.

I can only wonder if this could possibly work with someone who, in my opinion, is mentally ill.

She's obsessive, manipulative, paranoid, and self-centered to name a few of the more obvious problems that I can see.

Pending the counselor's advice, I would have to say that Diamondeye's advice seems to be the best. I will not be manipulated and I will not let her admonish me for any of my language. I am an adult, not a little boy, and she has to respect what I have to say, especially when it is about my son and how my wife and I feel hurt by her actions.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

My humble 2 cents: Verbal abuse/shouting matches/etc will not help. It will only make the situation worse, with your mom digging her heels in deeper and your oral actions would just further cement her victim status in her mind. In addition to that, by yelling and being forceful, you are only operating under the illusion of control and that would not be lost on her. It would, more than likely, come across as the exact opposite of what you intended and appear as a loss of emotional control; she wins.

Best to stick to your original plan and wait for the counselor.

Silence is golden for now, and it won't give her anything to manipulate.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

No, no, that's not what I'm talking about. This isn't verbal abuse, nor a shouting match. You're not engaging in a shouting match; you're shouting the other person down completely, so there is no match. The idea is to overwhelm them with the sheer force of volume and profanity so that they shut the **** up. It isn't intended to vent one's spleen or hrt their feelings. It might, but that's not the goal. The goal is to take the floor away from them so that there is no more manipulation occuring.

Whether it cements a victim status or anything isn't important. The goal here is to stop the behavior towards Foamy and Oonagh, not fix mom's problems. The point of this technique is to A) paralyze her behavior completely so it can't occur and B) make it extremely unpleasent for her to use these tactics because she will simply get shouted down.

Eventually she'll quit because she'll realize she's getting nowhere. Then you can get to the calmer stuff. This is what a lot of people don't realize about social interactions; the person in control is not the one being calm; it's the one getting what they want. If you shout her down so badly that she can't respond, you're in control. Not her, no matter how much she thinks she is, espcially once you get to the "one more word and you can get out of my house" part. Remember, you're not loosing your temper here; you're making a concious, controlled decision to use your lungs to gain control of the conversation.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Talked to my counselor last night for the first time.

She advised that the baby not be left with my mother.

She also told me something that I just haven't yet processed..."I don't have to talk to my parents."

I know this sounds simple enough, but the realization that I no longer have to defend myself to them, or tell them any reasons or justification for anything that I do hasn't fully come over me.

I just got a VM on my cell from mom. Now mind you, since the incident on Thursday morning and the ambulance incident later that day, I have not been able to open a line of communication to them.


Like NOTHING ever happened. She actually expected that we would just roll over and continue to play dead like my dad has for all these years.

I am expecting a call any moment now from my dad once he gets to work. Oonagh has had me practice my speech. "Dad, right now, I am doing what is good for the mental health of MY FAMILY. I will reopen the lines of communication to you when I am ready."

Right now I am scared. I shouldn't be, but I am. I know the fallout that will ensue. I am fairly certain that the police will need to be called because I expect a raving mother at my house demanding entry. I want to be strong and stand by what I think is right, but it is hard. I know she will never change, and may never understand fully what long chain of events has led to this eventual conclusion. I hurt and Oonagh hurts and they don't want to address it. If she can challenge us now about the baby's sleeping habits, then what is next, a challenge to how we may discipline him? I won't stand for it, and Oonagh won't stand for it.

She will understand that there are now consequences to her years of actions. I will now set down the boundaries that my dad should have many years ago.

Now to somehow get through this work day...

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

I'll be praying for you. Maybe it helps to know that there are a lot of supportive people on here who will be thinking about you throughout the day and cheering you on.
Yes, this is hard. Yes, it really really hurts. And yes, its scary.
But ultimately, you are doing this for you heart, Oonaghs heart, and the heart of that sweet little boy.
It won't always be like this; the beginning is tough.
Be strong.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Foamy,

You are doing what you need to do as a parent and husband to protect your family. Do not back down, do not compromise. Perhaps in time, your parents might come to understand the why of what you're doing, only then will healing begin. Until then, circle the wagons and defend your family.

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"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me." - Alice R. Longworth

"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash Williams

I wouldn't even listen to the messages. Doing so allows her to get her manipulative guilt trips in, without giving you an avenue of response.

When your therapist tells you that you don't have to talk to your parents, that includes *listening* to them, too.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I believe that you're doing the right thing, but I also feel that it's important to tell your parents.

I recommend writing a letter to them to explain what's happening, so that they can re-read it as many times as they need to have it sink in. Send it by certified mail so you know for sure it made it. Then stop all communication and don't even listen to their messages until you're ready.

If they have keys to your house, probably should get the house re-keyed as they will likely stop over and let themselves in at some point.

We have a lead on a daycare at the church I where I was baptised. They have an opening and can watch the boy for the 2 days that were my parent's days.

We are visiting there tonight and as long as we like it and give them the registration fee, we got the spot.

*crosses fingers*

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Better now than never but best would have been 12 years ago.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Im proud of you Foamy. Love to you, Oonagh and the lil one.

Matt

So, we were at the daycare filling out the paperwork and I finally get a call from them. They left me a VM on my cell and were outside my house waiting for Oonagh and I to come home.

There were 4 messages on my home phone answering machine. The basic gist of each and every message was..."Pick up the phone, this has gone on long enough, we are going to resolve this tonight.

I am in no mood currently to speak with them and just like my counselor told me, I don't have to tell them ANYTHING. I am tired of them trying to force themselves into my life no matter how I feel.

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT THIS WHOLE INCIDENT - I never raised my voice, nor did I lose my cool.

On the way back from the daycare, I finally answered the phone and told them plainly that myself and my wife are hurting right now and I think it is best for my family's mental health that we not speak with them for a while. I hung up and had to answer a few more calls restating the same.

We neared our house and they were parked across the street. We detoured and dropped the baby @ Oonagh's parents and ran out to the supermarket to pick up a few things. Oonagh suggested we continue running and avoid the confrontation, I said no.

Went home and pulled up around the back of our house and sure enough, they were sitting on my back patio. I told Oonagh to go into the house, I restated my wishes, asked them to leave and if they didn't I would call the police and ask to have them escorted off of my property. I went into the house and locked the door.

For about the next hour or so, my mother bombarded our phones from my back porch. Some we answered, most we ignored. Oonagh did decide to try and reason with her over the phone and, as expected, her temper flared and my mother just continued to talk over my wife's scarred feelings as she talked about how my mother insulted Oonagh's dead brother mere days after his suicide.

This kept up for a while and I finally went to the back door and asked several more times to respect my home and my family and please leave. I even looked my dad in the eye, past my raving mother, and begged: "Dad, Father to Son, man to man, Please take her home. Please respect me and do this." I though I saw a glimmer of understanding in his eyes, but he doesn't seem to have the stones to carry through with it and actually get my mother to leave with this yet unresolved.

The phone calls continues and I made up my mind. My wife was crying in the living room and my baby was elsewhere and I could not safely bring him home. I called the local police dispatch and asked that they be removed from my property. I completely expected that once she saw me on the phone she would tuck tail and run, but she did not.

She changed gears and asked for the Weedwacker that my dad had loaned to me. I said I will give it to you if you leave. She did not agree with this.

At this moment, the police showed up and my mother, who RARELY IF EVER curses and has only enters a church when there is a wedding funeral or christening , lets loose with, "I can't F***ing believe this." Followed with "God forgive you" over and over again. Let me emphasize how NOT RELIGIOUS my mother is.

I walk toward the officer as my mother starts running off of my property. I go to my back tool shed to get my dad's weedwacker as the officer drives down my alley to head them off. I yell to my dad that I have his weedwacker and he turns to retrieve it. As the officers detain them and ask what is the problem, I hear my mother answer "Nothing, we have an arrogant son." And my dad ices the cake with, "Don't YOU, YOUR WIFE, or THAT BABY ever call my house again."

They won't respect me as a man. They expect that decades of hurt are going to be solved TONIGHT because they said so. I don't know what else to do. I have to protect my family, not from foreign invaders or some other hidden threat, but my OWN PARENTS who are the ones that have caused all this hurt.

This morning my mother called my cell phone and calmly stated the following...
"I don't know where all this anger has come from. You said you want to talk about it, so lets talk. We will talk like adults, no shouting. Your temper and her (Oonagh's) temper are horrible"

She doesn't see any wrong that she may have caused. It is all elsewhere. As long as they do not understand this, I will not talk with them. I will continue to calmly make my request that they respect me and let me decide when I am ready to come forward. As long as they force me into a corner and TELL me that we are going to resolve it, there will be no good outcome from this.

I am calling my counselor this morning to make an earlier appointment than in 2 mondays from now. I need more guidance. They won't listen and they won't accept my request to allow me distance from them.

Sorry again for the longness....

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Thats sounds like it was emotionally exhausting...too much drama. I can't believe your dad didn't step in especially after your request, and that he said what he did. That would hurt me more than the behavior I would have come to expect from my mother.
I am sad for you guys.
All they had to do was respect your wishes and give you guys some space. Is that really so freaking hard to do? Instead they have to have a dramatic stake-out on your porch and harass you into speaking to them? They took a simple situation and turned into something huge, dramatic, and painful. Very painful! And that was completely unnecessary. Shame on them.
I hope you get another counseling appointment very soon.
And I'm proud of you guys for trying so hard and for remaining level-headed in such a difficult situation. Also, kudos to you on your rockin' parental instincts on leaving the baby with your Oonagh's parents, and making sure the situation was totally over before bringing baby home.
You two are wonderful parents. Don't forget it.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth