The Glade 4.0

I'm serious. I swear I am not trying to offend anyone, I'm just being honest about a very confusing subject.

Last night we were driving to church and driving through our neighborhood to get to the highway. (We live in the ghetto...neighbors party's are always getting broken up by cops and then gunfire.) We were driving on our side of the road and these two girls were walking toward us in the middle of the road! Just casually walking in the middle of the road. We kept driving towards them, slowly, and they glared at us like they had the right of way...like we were driving on the sidewalk or something. My husband politely motioned for them to move to the side of the road, and they yelled some things and did that whole arm pointy-finger thing and yelled "Come on! I NEED a check, I NEED a check!" Like go ahead and run me over so I can sue you and live off your money.

I see stuff like this all. the. time. And I've been seeing it constantly for over a decade since I've been in Mississippi.

One of my friend's neighborhoods in a nearby town has a very small park with a basketball hoop and a slide that was put up by the city years ago. I had the kids there one day and asked his neighbor why the basketball had no rim or net on it. He said that every time the city puts one up that a bunch of young, unemployed, black men come out in the middle of the day drinking 40s, smoking, and playing basketball. They hog the playground so the children cannot play when they get home from school, and they leave broken glass and cigarette butts everywhere. So as soon as the city leaves, he takes the hoop down so the playground stays safe for the children.

I see black men during work hours driving through the neighboorhoods on bicycles drinking out of paper bags. I see black men at the grocery store paying for food with food stamps and pulling out a wad of 20s and 100s to get the cash to pay for their beer. When I was a single mom and a college student on food stamps, I heard some awful things come out of those black women's mouths about abusing the system. They didn't have money for food but they always had their hair done and their nails done, expensive cell phones, and brand new Tommy Hilfiger clothing on.

I have been in the Emergency room with my son and next door a black woman was screaming and moaning and I asked what was wrong and they said she comes in every couple of days to try and get pain medication for a non-existent illness.

The examples go on and on and on and on.....

Its like the black culture around here is a sense of entitlement to the point of hostility and violence...everyone owes them something.

I know there are white people like this, but I have not seen them. In the decade that I have been here, out in the country I've seen a few white people doing drugs and being outright scum of the earth, but there is not this sense of entitlement even from the white trash....not this attitude of "I can do whatever the **** I want to and somebody will pay for it."

I grew up in the pacific northwest and came down here 16 years ago. I spent a good part of my childhood being homeschooled and studying African American history books for fun. I had a romantisized view of the oppressed black man and came down here with the attitude that all black people should be treated like royalty for what they have been through. I remember being told a hundred times by all the old-timers that "there is a difference between black people and *******, and the quicker you learn this, the better off you'll be." Heck, I used to argue with them about that until I was blue in the face....I even almost got beat up one time for telling someone in their own home not to use the n word.

( I still think its a terrible word. I don't think anyone deserves to be called that.)

As I grew up, a gained a more realistic perspective and realized we were all equals and we needed to put the past behind us.

After about 10 years, the stuff I was seeing and experiencing started taking their toll and wearing me down. My best friend for the past 12 years is black. I have colleagues who are black that I admire and respect. But does that mean anything? I'm starting to wonder. I mean, I don't automatically discount someone because of their skin color, do I? But there is something really really wrong with the black culture down here.
Where are our community leaders? There are a few black guys at the YMCA that teach the young boys basketball and that warms my heart to see them taking pride in there community...but far too often I see the only thing the young black men have around here to look up to are guys who steal or deal drugs for a 'living' and listen to rap music where the idealized life style is money, drugs, women, and bling.

I see a few positive black role models in our community, but they are few and far between.

Does this all make me rascist?

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I used to think something similar, but hen I realized that trash is trash, I think it is more of a lower economic thing then a race. (Granted I have not seen any Asian trash, maybe they keep their hidden.) Having spent enough time with middle class Blacks (or are they African Americans still?) Their values are very similar, they just seem a bit more to loathe to criticize trash of a similar hue.

Then again some of the Chris Rock Method and dream of joining the klan

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

"trash is trash" I totally agree...but I live in Mississippi, and most of the trash here are black people and according to many people's standards, me believing that they are trash or abhorring their behavior...well, that makes me a racist.

I agree that economics is a huge part of it. But there is a huge cultural aspect as well. The attitude and sense of entitlement. We need some strong, positive, black leaders in our community.

I would love to hear from someone from other parts of the US who have the same problem with trash but its white people.
I know it happens I've seen it on TV!! (COPS anyone??)

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

It's ok to think white trash is exactly that, but as soon as you think of "black trash", you are labelled a racist.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

My friend has this theory that people try to subconciously fulfill their stereotype. There is this sentiment that racism is racism if you attribute others' behavior to fulfillment of their cultural stereotype, but if its self-assessment, it becomes cultural pride or some other such nonsense.

I believe black Americans have cultivated many awesome contributions in terms of culture for this country. But everyone in this country, it seems, is trying to get their free handout. It may very well be the case that it is a cultural manifestation to have an attitude of entitlement where you live.

In order to answer the question of whether or not it's racist, one must understand what racism is. I have not the answer to questions such as that, but I'm sure Khross and others have some insight as to the established schools of thought in this area. But regardless, it's just a label to try and describe behavior.

I feel you should instead concern yourself, are your throughts malicious and do they make your uncomfortable? After all, we could redefine the word racist to mean literally, one who can discern different types of eggs by taste and texture alone, and if someone called you racist, would it then matter?

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Thats true...maybe its just the area I have been living in for the past 12 years?

And yes, Rafael, my thoughts are malicious and they make me uncomfortable. Last night when those girls behaved like they did, I was thinking some very nasty things.

I don't like that. I much prefer the way I used to think as opposed to now.
I don't know if its racism or bigotry or what, but I do know that I don't like my own thoughts when I see these incidents occur.

It makes me feel bad about myself.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

In answer to your OP, I would say that so long as you realize that it's not just blacks that engage in that sort of behavior, you're fine.

I've seen such behavior from different races, it's not confined to one particular race.

But were you thinking that way because of who they are, or because of the behavior they were exhibiting?

See Bery, thats where the confusion comes in. If it were a couple of white girls, would I have been as angry? Would I have just laughed it off? Would I have gotten out of the truck and beat them up? I have no idea.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

[youtube]Ui6-Wc0PDc4[/youtube]

Thing is, Chris Rock's description of "Niggaz" applies to every peice of white trash I've ever known, too.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

My future ex, who if you didn't see the picture thread is white, is exactly like this. She was raised in very upper-class suburban family and ran off to the ghetto when she was 18. I don't think it is a product of race but environment. She and all of her white friends from the ghetto act like this.

They are angry for anger's sake and literally everything is about status and showmanship. God forbid they lose face in public. Its the damndest thing I've ever seen and I just cannot understand or relate to it.

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No, you're not a racist.

You're just making observations.

Now, the thing to remember is that you're only observing things where you are (I don't get the idea you travel a lot, so forgive me if you are getting around and seeing more). Where you are, there happen to be a lot of poor black people that have very much the attitude that leads to the n-word stereotype.

That isn't the case with blacks everywhere, nor is everyone who acts like that black. My neighborhood isn't the greatest either, although it's better than yours sounds. I do see some of the same sorts of behavior, but I see it equally from black and white people, and Hispanics of both races.

What you're seeing is, in part, simply a function of the demographics of your area.

The sense of entitlement is really a byproduct of the attitude you describe yourself as having when you move down there (not your personal attitude, but that attitude on the part of people who never get to see what you see, or who happen to be black and benefitting from the result of that attitude). It's the attitude that there is some mysterious "white priviledge" that tells people whites just automatically get advantages, and that any given white person, no matter how bad they have it, would have it worse if they were black and any given black person, no matter how good they have it, would have it better if white.

That idea is hogwash. From a scientific standpoint, it's unfalsifiable and therefore worthless as a hypothesis. From a social, economic, and political standpoint it results in excessive focus on poor blacks (and the poor in urban areas in general) by all aspects of the political spectrum and ignoring poor whites and asians, and to a certain degree, Hispanics (not to mention the general ignoring of the rural poor in most discussions of such issues).

So no, you're not a racist. A racist would think it was the fact that they're black that inherently makes them behave that way.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

It can get confusing, but the fact that you're asking these question, to my mind, says that you are ok. Were you truly a racist, I believe you'd have the attitude, but without questioning it.

To varying degrees, I've dealt with such thinking in the past. It's enough for me to know that the attitudes can creep in and that I have to remain diligent to root out such attitudes when they pop up. And they do pop up from time to time.

Taly, thank you. That made me lol.
Hop, sorry she is like that...my oldest son's dad used to be like that. Not so much now that he has gone to college and actually doing something with his life. He still refuses to get a job though and expects his $20 a week in child support that is taken out of his unemployment check to take care of everything. (He hasn't had a job in over a year...thank you oh mighty govt for extending benefits to make life easier for the people who never intend to get a job....)

DE, no you're right, I don't get out much, hahaha! I've been out of the south only a handful of times in the past decade and it was either for funerals or conferences, so my perspective is probably pretty limited. The only thing I have to compare it to is the small town that I grew up in which was mostly wealthy families on the Oregon coast. Thanks.
Bery, thats the key there...rooting out attitudes when they pop up. I didn't like the way I was thinking last night.

Really like the Chris Rock bit.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

You laughed at that??? RACIST!

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

7 out of 10 times there is someone driving in the left lane doing 5 to 10 miles under the limit and completely screwing up the flow of traffic, its a black, teenage female. That however does not mean that 7 out of 10 black, female teenagers drive slowly in the left lane, nor do you expect that 7 out of 10 black, teenage female drivers will do that.

I would say consider what your reaction would be if you were sitting next to a black man in a business suit on the bus or something. You probably wouldn't have any issues with him at all.

When we get irritated by people, we assign all kinds of nasty slurs to them. I think its a reaction to show myself as different from that person so I subconsciously seize on the most apparent aspect of them and turn it into something bad.

I drive down the road and get behind somebody with a Sonora, Mexico license plate going 10 mph under the speed limit. I shoot around them uttering "frickin Mexicans" under my breath. Yet I dated a girl from Mexico for two years and liked her family more than my own.

Sometimes the thing we mentally deride somebody on is racial because its the quickest. Yet if its somebody probably in your same group, you resort to other things. How many times did you call a white girl a "slut" in your head when you got pissed?

I dunno. Thats all I got.

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The Dude abides.

Thats a good point Screeling, and the same one my husband made last night when I voiced my concern over my thoughts.
He said basically that when you are angry at someone you reach for the thing that is the meanest or that would hurt them the most...its just a natural human response.
Like, if I were mad at an obese person I might be thinking "you fat***" or something like that because that is the most hurtful thing I could think of.
Something like that.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I agree with Screeling's sentiment

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

When I visited I noticed that there is very little interaction between white and black on a social level in the parts of the South I visited. Even approaching the counter at a Hardy's a saw a certain wariness in the eyes and posture of the black clerks. It was only after I opened my mouth and obviously wasn't from around there that they relaxed.

Talking to you two, I didn't see a racist bent to either of you, but we all had an awareness that race is an issue still in your 'neck of the woods' still today.

You live in the deep south, you are white. For that alone you will be labeled as racist by some. Yes, while I was there I saw some stereotypical scenes of racial separation, but I did not feel either you or Nitefox had a problem.

I also noticed on the way over to the reception, as I waited for them cross the street to their church to attend some event, some very well dressed and from what I could tell impeccably groomed young black people who were standing tall, laughing and having a good time. I was just someone in a car, they were just people crossing the street.

There are good and bad among every large group of people. Just do your best to remain the good person you are.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

When I worked in Toronto, I worked with a girl who had just moved there from Dallas, Texas. She was absolutely amazed at this difference. When in Toronto, she made friends with a black girl from jamaica. What blew her mind was that groups of friends were not racially divided there, there was no cultural separation between people of different skin colors. In Texas, it just was not done--while there were no segregation laws, but for the most part black and white people kept themselves separated just the same.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Its true...segregation still occurs but not by any legal force. Black people have their own churches and hang-outs, etc.
I asked my husband if our church was racist and he said no...we have a couple thousand members and the one black family that are members, the father is head of the janitorial staff. The only time you see a black person is working in the nursery or cleaning the building.
Everyone swears its not a purposeful thing, thats just how it happens.
When I was in high school, all the black kids sat on one side of the cafeteria and the white kids on the other...because they chose to.
The laws have long since been taken away but people don't act like it.
Sometimes I think we really are a backwards state.
I also sometimes think that we need another minor social revolution. I keep hearing all these good things about race relations elsewhere...we need it down here along with a leveling of the economic disparity.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

That is so true. When I lived in Dallas, it took my wife and I over a year to find a decent Chinese restaurant, because we didn't know that all the Asian people lived in the Richardson suburb.

You typically don't see that as much up here in Mpls.

And no LK, you're not racist, you're just surrounded by a culture that's fed back on itself for generations.

I have mixed feelings about the reassurances expressed so far. In my view, it's perfectly legit to say that there's a sub-culture of poor, black people in this country that has some pretty nasty traits - entitlement, bitterness, violence, etc. - and it's equally legit to condemn those traits and feel anger towards the people exhibiting them.

However, I think you're right to be concerned about issues like this:



I'm guessing you wouldn't be, because human beings are hard-wired to see patterns and react based on those patterns. When you see white people acting like those girls you described, you probably see them as individual assholes, because they don't fit any pattern that's been established in your brain. When you see black people acting that way, though, you (correctly) note that their behavior is a typical example of a broader sub-culture you dislike. As a result, however, your reaction to the particular black people acting that way is altered, and probably intensified, by that pattern-recognition, and you end up judging them for the sins of all black people rather than just their own behavior.

Also, there's inevitably an element of confirmation bias that comes into play. You've identified this pattern, and now whenever you see examples of it, the pattern is more deeply ingrained in your mind. But, the reverse isn't true - when you see examples that contradict the pattern, you subconsciously reject or recategorize those contrary examples in order to keep the pattern intact. Again, it seems humans are just hard-wired to do this.

That's why I don't think this is an innocuous reaction:



Obviously, Screeling doesn't hate Mexicans, and it's true that we tend to aim for the easy targets when we get irritated with someone, but I think there's more going on in our subconscious than just that. Again, I think it's a reaction that's intensified by pattern-recognition and confirmation bias. Also, this is a classic example of "othering" - i.e. identifying some trait that distinguishes someone from ourselves and using that trait as the basis of an "us and them" categorization. If Screeling were Mexican, he wouldn't think "frickin Mexicans" and if you were fat, you wouldn't think "that fat b*tch", because doing so would be including yourselves in the condemnation. Instead, you find some distinction to put the person in a different category of human being than you, and then it's "safe" to condemn them without implicating yourself.

*Edit: Incidentally, I want to point out that I'm guilty of doing all these things myself, so I don't want to give the impression that I'm being all holier-than-thou.

[youtube]BbQiSVeQwVQ[/youtube]

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Holy shitsnacks!