The Glade 4.0

Nah you're leaving out a lot of stuff. This may be because of your perspective or mine as a moderator. Reports by and from Monte were a big thing, but others here generate reports too. People clamoring for Monte to be banned, then when he finally is, others clamoring that it was unfair and all the reports that produced. Then there are the PMs on who is doing what, biased moderators, or moderators mad that others are calling them biased. Who thinks we need to lock Hellfire, who doesnt. PMs and posts on what happened in that Gays in the Military thread diverge from your take too DE. Not that you are wrong, or they are wrong, it's just that, different perspectives.

So yeah it's not clear cut. I'm now trying to set expectations, which is a step removed from me ignoring this completely.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I understand that there are a lot of PMs I (and most of the rest of us) aren't privvy to, but I think the expectations were quite clear to everyone but one person.

I don't really see how there's any benfit in having 2 forums to address the same topics.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

So then the problem you see is that Heckfire is superfluous? I can live with that Or do you have issue with this forum being relatively unmoderated?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Put me down for a vote on this.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Both are a problem.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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And why is that?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

(1) Only Hellfire is going to get used. Heckfire will be a dead forum where nobody discusses anything because they can't for fear of a ban-stick, and all the interesting stuff happens in Hellfire. So really, the heckfire is just a distraction, so we can say "If you don't like it, go over to the unmoderated forum where nobody is posting."
(2) We've gone with an unmoderated Hellfire in the past--it was a nightmare. What we've had since we moved here has been a million times better.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Well, looks like I'm probably in the minority, but I really like the idea of two separate forums, even if the more heavily moderated one is rarely used. It really is difficult sometimes to maintain a calm, polite discussion of issues and ideas at the Glade because threads often follow the same pattern. Threads usually start as a reasonable discussion. At some point, though, 2-3 people get irritated with each other and start arguing ad nauseum about some side issue or minor point. For a while, everyone else keeps trying to talk amongst themselves, but it becomes harder and harder to ignore the drama going on in the corner. More and more people start chiming in on the side issue rather than the main topic until, eventually, the only people left in the thread are the ones shouting walls of text and dictionary definitions at each other.

With Heckfire and Hellfire split, that seems less likely to happen. Maybe people won't use Heckfire very often, but it will be nice toat least have a forum where the above pattern doesn't occur. People who get upset in the middle of a Heckfire thread can just take their disagreement to Hellfire, allowing the more relaxed, conversational thread to continue without all the noise and distraction. At least, that's what I hope happens.

I agree with DE's post. But then, I also agree with a large portion of Coro's post, minus the unnecessary insults.

Moderation did not, imo, handle the locking of the forum well, at all.

It was locked without an official moderators note. We were also threatened by a mod (without actually typing as a moderator) to 'play nice or we wouldn't get our toys back'.

Locking hellfire to stop a bad situation from getting worse? I can see that. Locking it without an official post to that effect? Not cool.

Locking it and unofficially threatening to take it away for good? Past not cool, imo.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

(1) That's fine.
(2) Why was it a nightmare?

Just going by your report of flaming, you cant handle that? Something like that makes this place a nightmare? Too many people in Hellfire have some sense of entitlement to have their feelings spared and their own very specific brand of justice doled out. be it complete freedom as some want, or just how it was as you suggest, or what have you. You and others think how it was, was just fine. Again:

Why arent you banning Monte?
Monte gets banned
Why did you ban monte?
LK and others leave
She blew it out of proportion
Why did you allow people to say that to her?
Lock the forum
Why did you lock the forum?
There should be no moderation
Why are you bashing moderators?
Leave moderating how it was
I knew all the moderators would suck, they never did their jobs!

Virtual utopia !

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

You must understand, the moderators have not been unified on this issue. We have, in the past, tried to keep such disagreements behind closed door to present a unified front. Now DFK! has resigned as a moderator over both the recent locking of hellfire, and these changes in general. There is still no consensus, however, ultimately, Dash is administrator and Mookhow owns the server, so if they choose to rule by decree, they can do so.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I reported flaming because it is inappropriate for me, as a moderator, to take moderator action against someone who has just flamed me. There's a conflict of interest, so I simply stepped back and reported it.

Assuming the report had been dealt with as before, that would have been "working as intended." Nothing wrong with the forum.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Not that my opinion counts, but I'd have really preferred a "heckfire". It seems to me that I could make posts and had discussions without such a large number of them devolving into "You're just a homophobic bigot" if there had been a heavily moderated forum for controversial topics. Now it doesn't matter, but it might have mattered some time back.

That's not answering the question. You want it "interesting" but not too interesting I take it. So will having that post you reported go unmoderated effect you in some way? is this a slippery slope argument?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I understand that.

But even still, the moderator who performed said action should have said something about said action.

I realize admins and owners can do whatever they want, that does not make it correct. And something tells me it was not either Dash or Mook who locked hellfire, as both of them have been very good about letting us know when they do something so major, and why.

My opinion would be that people are reporting things they do not feel are necessarily 'directly harmful', but they feel like reports are going to be coming against them, so they might as well get a report of their own in. Which in the end just makes things more complicated.

But that's just my 2cp.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

It was actually Mookhow. The only post he made acknowledging that (publicly) is in this thread, on page 1.

Micheal also posted that he requested the lock, but he did not do it himself.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I found this forum unreadable in the previous incarnation of the glade and rarely even looked at it, let alone posted there, specifically because of posts like that one, and the other constant crap going on.

We were doing better at keeping it civil here. That's now going to be out the window.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Just a suggestion, but maybe putting a limit on the number of reports people can make would help. If you only get to make 3 reports a month, you're less likely to use one for the small stuff, which in turn might help people realize that it's almost all small stuff.

I don't believe that function exists in this software, RD.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

You are right- Michael did say he requested it locked, but Mookhow did not say he locked it, simply that we should be able to obviously see why it was locked.

That said, punitive action with no explanation and non-official threats still do not sit well with me.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I know. I'm telling you it was Mookhow directly.

I am also telling you there were some very vocal objections to the action. It's easy to go after the moderation as a group, and normally I agree with the united front, but in this case, when the moderation is so sharply divided and it ends up done by decree (as is the right of the board owner) rather than consensus, over such a divisive issue, I believe I'll insist on making it known.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I very well understand that things were divided. And that you can't go after moderation as a group.

In my mind, that is why it is so important for an act by an individual mod to be made clear.

Just like it is important for Mod's to make use of their 'moderation voice' vs their regular poster voice.

It makes clear what the decisions are, and by who. Without that clarity, things can dissolve very quickly, imo.

And for the record, I don't really have a problem with things being done by decree, as long as it is done openly. Otherwise I get that spooky secret police feeling and reach for my tinfoil hat

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I have to say, depending how it pans out, I may like heckfire. I dont think I like admitting that, but I often tune out of Hellfire discussions when it gets to the wall-of-diamond-eye-military-expertise (as just one example - not picking on DE) of more and more detailed argumentation over points A B and C and stops being a conversation.

I like conversations ;-p

I zone out in here too SuiNeko when things get bogged down.



They tend to come in spurts. It was quite dead in moderatorville for a while there, then you log on one day and stuff is locked, reports are there PM box has a few messages.

I'm all for talking this out but as you can see even amongst the moderators there is a lot of disagreement about what was done, or is being implemented.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

If it worked, I'd LOVE Heckfire. The thing is, Heckfire, as it currently stands, will be operating under the same rules Hellfire was until today. If most of the discussions are going on there, all the better. I just think the new and deteriorated Hellfire will get all the posters and interesting debate, if one can tolerate the signal-to-noise ratio.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █