The Glade 4.0

The judge determining that there was no criminal intent does not mean the people making the arrest in the first place were not enforcing the law. That's how a judicial system works; there's different steps and just because charges aren't pursued or innocence is determined at one step doesn't mean the prior steps were somehow nefarious.

The judge determining that there was no criminal intent does not mean the people making the arrest in the first place were not enforcing the law. That's how a judicial system works; there's different steps and just because charges aren't pursued or innocence is determined at one step doesn't mean the prior steps were somehow nefarious.

Man, I wish I'd linked the article when I saw it earlier, because now I can't find it, but it seems that aid is not getting to Haitians as it should because people have seen what the Haitian gov't did to that missionary group and now are ultra cautious about how they handle things to the point that people who need to be evacuated are not being evacuated. A group of kids were apparently left there, who needed to be air-lifted to the U.S. for medical treatment, but the aid groups are paralyzed now for fear of being arrested. Unless every i is dotted and every t is crossed.....Meanwhile, children die for lack of aid and medical treatment.

I'll give a link if I find the story again.....

Still can't find the article, the above was just a few paragraphs in a larger story about medical conditions in Haiti. IIRC, there was some news about babies dying of malnutrition because the moms stopped lactating after the earthquake, and such news.

Of course, given the "Blame the Americans instead of the Haitian officials" mood on the board, this should be treated as hearsay and nothing more.

You need to watch the second link. (which I meant to post as the first link.)

I did. It didn't tell me anything except that there's "a theory" that people aren't evacuating kids without paperwork.

Ok, they trotted out some kid that needs surgery. The fact of the matter is that this situation makes ripe opportunities for kidnapping and human trafficking. I'm not buying that there's a problem here.. especially based on pilots not flying since.. once they take off Haiti can't do ****. They have no Air Force. That's just pilots not being willing to be party to either kidnapping, or to people just yanking kids out of the country wholesale to "give them a better life" or whatever. If I were a pilot I wouldn't either, arrest or no arrest. I'm not going to be duped into helping kidnappers.

So no, your second link shows nothing new.

How does that go again...the road to hell is paved with good intentions?

Taking kids off the streets with the intention of taking them out of the country... what could go wrong?

Or, taking kids that parents have given you because they cannot take care of them any longer.....

So you think they went there to traffic in child slavery? I mean, do you really think someone can just give away a child?

The only excuse they can make that I'd believe is "I was stupid".

I also think they were dumb as rocks....

These folks just weren't thinking.

Interesting. So it didn't bother you when that pilot talked about dead children because no one would fly them out? Or how private rescue flights have dried up, from 10-15 per day to maybe half a dozen total since the missionaries were arrested? Interesting.

Not really, no. I don't know who that pilot is, or how she's medically qualified to determine how many children may or may not have died based on flights. I also don't know that the same amount of money or number of planes is available now, nor do I know that there's the same need for rescue flights. The woman is a pilot; she's responsible for flying her plane. She's not someone coordinating all this stuff, and her information may or may not be accurate. Why would they interview a pilot and not someone with access to better documentation of the overall relief picture? Maybe the Marine commander?

Moreover, if that reduction in rescue flights is due to demans for proper documentation of what's being done with children then yes. I don't consider it acceptable to just take children off anywhere, even with good intentions, because there's been a disaster. Human traffiking is a serious problem and a very horrible thing, and I don't think that safeguarding children against slavery is any less important than evacuating them for medical needs.

So letting children die is preferable to taking a small risk that the child may end up in the wrong hands. Got it.

Taking a risk that some unknown number of children may die is preferable to taking a risk that some children will end up in the hands of human traffikers, abusers, where their life is likely to be fairly short anyhow, yes.

Not only that but "the wrong hands" when it comes to children means anyone without right, authority, or permission to have the child, so that right there elevates the risk far above "small".

So let's keep the probability assessments in terms of what we know instead of couching them in loaded language. Quite frankly I'm appalled that you're not more concerned with the risk of human traffikers taking children or even young men and women in the aftermath of this crisis. The opportunities are ripe.

What we know is that Dr's want to evacuate children but are having a difficult time doing so due to the red tape. What we don't know is whether any of the Dr's or pilots are engaging in child trafficking.

No, what we know is that things are not going precisely as the doctors would like because of regulations that are in place to prevent child kidnapping. It is not "red tape". Predjudicial language will not make your point any stronger.

It also does not have to be the doctors and pilots involved in rescue efforts doing the kidnapping; it can be someone impersonating a rescue worker or they could simply get snatched almost anywhere along the line and without proper documentation, who will know? How would you prove anything?

Human traffiking is rampant in the Carribean, Central, and South America; pretending that the risk is small just because no one's been caught doing it in this particular instance is just shoving your head in the sand so you can act outraged that people have to follow reasonable procedures.

Procedures that allow injured children to die because they cannot be evacuated to a place where they can be treated is not a reasonable procedure, imo.

@ DE and Farsky:

I find it quite nefarious when we arrest people who don't have mens rea. It's nefarious because it wastes my dollars and their time.

There are no procedures saying they cannot be evacuated, just some saying that one must have written permission from the parents. That shouldn't be that **** hard to get. If the kids are dying because they had them qued up to leave and didn't bother getting that permission earlier thinking "oh, why the hell do we need that; it's just buearacracy" then it's the fault of the people trying to evacuate that children are dying while they **** around getting their ducks lined up.

You'll notice that the military flights are still going just fine according to your own video. That probably because the military didn't try to **** around and shortcut things.