The Glade 4.0

Were any of us, in a professional capacity, sitting in judgment of the accused, then yes, we would be bound by the presumption of innocence, and the prosecution would need to present legally admissible and lawfully obtained proof of evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You will note, I hope, that none of us are acting in any judicial capacity? And that, furthermore, there is no "smart until proven stupid" clause anywhere in the world?

Beryllin:

Your righteous indignation is not helping your case.

I had intended to take a LONG break from this place

You don't think that'll make any difference do you?

Trust me, it won't. Folks expecting change when they continue doing the same thing are idiots.

What I find interesting is - after events PROVE the planning and execution of the missionaries acts resulted in an unsatisfactory outcome, you continue to appear to defend it.

It was a failure, and because of that failure, the plight of needy people was superseded by foolish drama. It caused more pain and suffering than it cured, and I'd guess even more pain and suffering will result from it in the future - I'd also guess contributions have/will go down because of this bad press.

I am aware, but then, I ceased caring long ago, about the time Hellfire was locked. I had intended to take a LONG break from this place (and anticipate doing so in the near future), but my continued presence here so obviously irritated a few people that I decided to stick around for a bit for the fun of it.

Given what you get from the media, you're right. Given what actually happened, you are incorrect, except that perhaps contributions have gone down. I certainly quit donating anything for there. And I know the people should not suffer for the actions of their officials, but maybe they should get better officials.

Please expand on that, what good do you think has come of this that hasn't been publicly communicated?

I don't think anything "good" has come of this at all. I mean that with what you get from the media, you can believe it has been proven that the missionaries planning and execution were faulty, but if you knew what actually happened there, you'd know it was not the fault of the missionaries. They tried to do what was best, given the conditions and circumstances. It cost them dearly: two weeks of jail-time and nearly universal condemnation as child traffickers or worse, when they were and are nothing of the sort. Nothing good came from this at all.

Haitian Missionaries Use Rash Judgment

In the weeks following the Haitian earthquake, money, medical supplies and volunteers poured into the country. While economists debated the merits of foreign aid, world leaders jumped at the chance to increase their soft power in the international community. The general public might have had the purest motives during the tragedy as they sent millions of dollars and prayers.

Unfortunately for a few Haitian orphans – and their parents – good intentions landed them at the border of the Dominican Republic and landed 10 missionaries in a Haitian jail. Which, despite the missionaries’ belief their actions were righteous, was a reasonable and fair response from the Haitian government.

According to ABC News and Reuters, a Haitian judge ruled Thursday to release the 10 missionaries, most of them members of a Baptist church in Idaho. The group was arrested about two weeks ago and accused of child kidnapping after attempting to cross the border into the Dominican Republic with 33 Haitian children, who the missionaries believed were orphans.

Oddly enough, many of the children were found to have at least one living parent, although some parents testified they willingly gave their children to the group. The group didn’t have a single document verifying the orphan status of the children or granting the missionaries’ permission to remove them from the country, in spite of the fact the Haitian government had suspended all adoptions days before.

The media and the missionaries themselves have made much of their honest motives and their faith. They have assured the Haitian government they did not intend to kidnap the children, and although they have no way to prove their claim, we have no reason to disbelieve them. The Haitian government, however, has every right to be skeptical. Haiti has experienced high levels of human trafficking, and the government fears traffickers will exploit the lack of infrastructure and decreased security resulting from the earthquake to cover their activity.

If the missionaries had been better prepared, they might have taken this into consideration. Most of them, though, had little to no experience in international aid. The trip was poorly planned and hastily undertaken, and the travelers suffered from a grotesque ignorance of the political, economic and social situation. It seems as though they just jumped on a bus to Port-au-prince and gathered up as many poor, little Haitian babies as they could – and made the decision in about five minutes.

The cultural superiority inherent in that description of the children is the other strike against the missionaries. At a time when the international community is already pushing the boundaries of Haiti’s national sovereignty, it is insensitive and foolish to treat the government or the people of Haiti as though they were incapable of caring for themselves or making rational decisions. The Haitian social affairs minister criticized the missionaries harshly, saying they wouldn’t do something like that in their own country. It shouldn’t be acceptable in Haiti, either. The point is made sharper when we look at disasters in the U.S., such as Hurricane Katrina, where aid workers indeed did not attempt to “rescue” children from New Orleans. Regardless of their overt mission, the underlying message said, “We think you need our help.”

Naïveté as an excuse stretches only so thin. ACU and the Abilene community have contributed much to the Haitian effort, and even college students seem to have enough sense to follow the proper channels. The missionaries may not deserve jail time for stupidity, but they certainly should face some consequences. Perhaps the negative media attention will be enough; a fine or being banned from the country would be more satisfactory. Regardless of the punishment, one would hope the shame they’ve brought on themselves – and on the church – would be enough to deter such foolishness in the future.

I can always count on people standing on Scripture (so long as it says what you want to hear). It's too easy to believe what you want to believe and no words to the contrary were going to be seriously considered.

Actually, DE, since you live in Ohio, maybe there is a more urgent need for child trafficking work than slamming on missionaries that are helping earthquake victims:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585 ... latestnews

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

3) Based on #1 and #2, you're seriously starting to piss me off. Do you know what will happen if you seriously piss me off?

You will initiate project destruction kawaii where you will release a hoard of japanese school girls whelding large wooden mallets and paper fans hell bent on colouring his room and anything associated with him Pink, thereby ensuring his death by over exposure to the plague of Kawaiiness?

Beryllin, I will put this as succinctly as possible.
1) You're acting like Monte. You're insulting anyone who has a different viewpoint than yourself, and you brand anyone who disagrees with you with wildly exaggerated labels. If anyone contradicts you, you have some sort of temper tantrum and say they must hate children or are Anti-Christian or Anti-American or some other rubbish.
2) You're acting like a complete ******* by waving around this "secret information" that you won't tell anyone, yet you repeatedly lord over everyone like it's the key to the whole situation.
3) Based on #1 and #2, you're seriously starting to piss me off. Do you know what will happen if you seriously piss me off?

3) Based on #1 and #2, you're seriously starting to piss me off. Do you know what will happen if you seriously piss me off?

The fact that your friend is involved is no excuse for your behavior, and it seems fairly obvious to me that you're biased regarding the situation.

But by all means, continue your line of thought and see where you end up.

And the crap people are saying about a friend of mine doesn't bother you a bit, I suppose?

I'll trust your judgment on that Bery.

But I still boggle at the situation and the either naivete or thoughtlessness of the missionaries.