The Glade 4.0

Not precisely, no. I mean, depending on my mood, I find having to deal with stupid human tricks in itself offensive, so then yes. But not in and of itself, no.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

It was surprisingly tasteful, especially considering the source.

I think the hardcore activists will be offended no matter what. They'll see it as just a masked assault on their position, but these types of ads would play much better with moderates I'd guess.

Anyway I personally prefer this soft sell approach.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

had I not known what the source was I would have wondered "WTF is the point of this commerercial" instead I was wondering "WTF are these people trying to say?"

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Unfortunatly, this is where we have to agree to disagree. In any other medical decision other than forced termination his or her livelyhood would be considered. Not to mention if any one else stabbed momma in the gut without her permission, and if momma lived and baby died, everyone would be screaming "Murder one! Murder one! Hang them in the streets. He killed a baby."
As to your other point, again I don't know and again if you'll look at the data I provided a large majority of the primary reasons for abortions are selfish and not medical.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I have gone round and round with my stance on abortion, and always end up back at the same spot..I am more pro-choice than pro-life. That being said...I don't find the ad to be offensive at all, but I have to wonder what the reasoning was for electing to spend the extreme amount of money that was needed for the ads. I don't think the target audience for the ad was appropriate or in as much need of convincing not to have abortions. Pam Tebow contracted amoebic dysentery on a mission trip to the Phillipines and the medicine used to treat her could have harmed the fetus. It was her choice, based on her convictions that lead her to not abort. Women in this situation (I don't have statistics to support this though) I feel are given the facts and statistics and are able to make the choice that is right for them. I really believe you should not force a woman to make a decision she is not convinced to be in her best interest.

I would rather have seen the money go for education of the target audience that is far more needy, in my opinion, that being the girls that abort based on convenience to their life at the time. This audience needs to see they may have repercussions later in life, based on the decision (depression, regrets). They need to be presented with options, and shown that adoption is a far better choice than abortion. This audience needs to have support and guidance and also the right not to have support withdrawn if they still choose abortion because THEY are making the decision based on what is right for them while taking the facts presented to them into consideration.

I know two people who have gotten abortions and both of them had done so multiple times (2x and 4x). When they went to the clinic the doctor is required by state law to make them watch a film and go through a 24 hour waiting period. The doctor told both women to sign a form saying they had come in the day before and watched the film and then performed the abortions on them both same day.

Again these women both had multiple abortions and still refused to use any form of birth control (pills are too expensive, make them bloated and condoms just don't feel as good). They are using abortion as their primary means of birth control because it is inconvenient to them to have a responsible sex-life.

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Hopwin,

There are always going to be selfish women in the world..ones who only care about themselves and give no thought to the consequences of their actions. There are also doctors that will enable these women, allowing them to continue the behavior. None of this is right in any way. Abortion as a means for birth control is wrong. These women will,I believe, regret their actions one day. But putting a blanket out that says no abortion what so ever is not the solution, in my opinion. I wish I knew the answer that would solve these dilemmas. If these women were not allowed to have abortions..would they give the children up for adoption? Would the children be healthy, or crack addicted? So many things that come up to challenge my soul.

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

I am firmly Pro-Life but I don't think it is my right to dictate morality to others. It just seems like Pro-Choice advocates prefer to keep the discussion limited to medical complications, rape and incest. They never want to discuss or address women who do use abortion as their primary means of birth-control.

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Always reminds me of Liar, Liar.

"Objection!"
"On what grounds?"
"It's devastating to my case!!!"

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Yeah this is close to my feelings on it although I'd say I'm more pro-life than pro-choice. The pro-choice argument that "it's a woman's decision" strikes me as misleading. Which woman? The reasonable, responsible law abiding woman or the woman who might have 6 abortions or toss her newborn in a dumpster? You cant just make it a blanket catch all like that.

I mean yeah if a woman's life is at risk I'm all about getting the heck out of the way and let her and her doctor decide what is best. On the other hand if a woman is deciding at 4 months in she just isnt ready well that's taking a life needlessly.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I am firmly pro-choice. I think that population controls are of great benefit to our society.

Couldn't that be accomplished more economically through birth control?

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There's no common sense, pragmatic proof that it's wrong to take a life while it's inside the womb. This is why the woman's choice should be the priority. Her well-being has a much clearer importance than the well-being of an unborn child, since it directly affects the people around her. Also giving birth when she's not ready could upset her life, and in the macroscopic scale this is bad for society.

It could be, but at the point of pregnancy, abortion is the only choice left. It's another fall-back.

I believe we need to find a way to retroactively abort a few idiots the world would have been better off without, yet who managed to survive into adulthood.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

There should be a large government agency of "life auditors", or another such name, that routinely examine people's lives and decide if they should lose citizenship, be exiled, or even be terminated.

I actually agree with that, I think it was freakonomics that put out the abortion - crime rate links. Even still, the ends dont justify the means. At some point, that pregnancy is a life. Pretty straightforward once you accept that.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

"The pro-choice argument that "it's a woman's decision" strikes me as misleading. Which woman? The reasonable, responsible law abiding woman or the woman who might have 6 abortions or toss her newborn in a dumpster? You cant just make it a blanket catch all like that."


I agree Dash, this is the ultimate question. This is where I have problems, and why I cannot be totally pro-life. I wish all women were responsible and had their heads on right, but that is not the case. Alot of ethical dilemmas on this one for me. So, do you say no abortion and force these women to carry to term a baby they dont want? Would they get the prenatal care needed? Would they stop the self destructive acts that make a baby not so convenient in their lives? Questions, Questions..I have held a 'crack' baby...they cry continually and are inconsolable at times, way more than a normal baby. It tears your heart out.

I wish there were more monies spent in providing services that could help these women after they have the baby and also with prenatal care and giving them the means to change their lives, maybe if they saw this they would be more likely to decide against having an abortion.

Taly: A HUGE agreement on that one.

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

If the woman can determine alone to terminate the pregnancy should the man be able to terminate his financing?

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

I would rather it be legal and offered in a clean and sterile environment. I would not support a girlfriend of mine who decided to use it as a method of birth control; but to any woman who is not carrying a spawn of mine... it is her choice (and hopefully she will include the man who is responsible for the pregnancy too) and not someone removed from their personal situation.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

And if -you- fail? Will you go peacefully into that good night? Population controls and life value panels are always good as long as it is someone else that dies right?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Yes. That's the 800-pound gorilla in the room. When a female gets pregnant and would have a very hard time as a single mom, it's all "but why should she have to suffer her whole life? it's so haaaarrrrd not to have sex!" but males are expected to keep it in their pants or be subject to the whime of the female unless they can somehow get custody. It's to the point that men are sometimes charged more in support than their gross income, and getting any increase in pay means a good chance of paying almost all the increase, and possibly even more as child support.

There have even been instances of adult woment getting pregnant by minors and then suing for child support and being granted it.

People like to pretend its about the child, but there is no accountability set up to make sure the money is spent on the child. It's quite common to hear women say "My ex is getting a raise, that's going to be my money as soon as I can get to court."

Child support needs 5 major reforms:

1) If the female elects to have the child, the male should be notified and a paternity test required if the parents are not married for child support to be allowed. Once notified, the male should have the one-time opportunity to terminate all financial obligtion and all parental rights with no power to reverse the decision either way later in life by them, the other parent, or the child. If the female wishes to give the child for adoption, the male must have the first opportunity to take the child in which case the mother surrenders all rights as if another fmily had adopted.

2) Child support, regardless of who is paying, should be limited to the amount necessary for clothing, food and drink, a share of the expenses of shelter based on the number of people in the household with each adult present counting twice as much as the child (and charging each supporting parent only for their children) shoes, and school supplies, plus 10% for unexpected expenses or for discretionary spending on the child. Costs should be computed based on both parents' locations and the higher cost used, but not to exceed 125% of the lower cost. Housing costs should be computed based on adequate housing for the custodial parent and family members living there, not based on where they actually choose to live.

3) Regardless of need, mandatory support by a noncustodial parent should not exceed the gross income of the custodial parent. If the custodial parent has lost their income through no fault of their own or has none and the supporting parent is not fit to take custod of the children, then the limit should be computed based on the lowest income of the custodial parent since the child's birth.

4) If a male minor impregnates a female adult, he should not be responsible for child support until age 18, or until graduation if he enrolls full-time in college and remains a full-time student continuously. If a female minor is impregnated by a male adult, and the male adult elects to terminate parental rights, the termination should not take effect until the mother is 18, or until she graduates college if she enrolls directly after high school and remains enrolled full time on a continuous basis. If the male parent gets custody of the child he had with a female minor, he should expect no child support until she is either 18 or has graduated college on the same caveats.

5) The receiving parent should be audited at least biannually to ensure child support is being spent on the child's needs.

If married, there should be no "escape clause" from paying child support, but abortions should require the permission of the spouse unless it would endanger life or cause permenant health damage to have the child.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Actually, I would be fine with dying, if it is relatively painless. I have a mental illness though, so I might be the wrong person to ask.

Everyone dies someday and there is good reason to expedite the deaths of many individuals for the betterment of society. We do it with wild animals, so why not with people?

If they would do this... that would be awesome. Instead they take the standpoint of "innocent woman with her poor baby, and the evil man who knocked her up."

it is like the child services has a motto of "If you have a d*** you are the prick"

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut