The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:13 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 207 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Monte wrote:
You surely aren't arguing that the only reason private schools continue to exist is because of public voucher programs, programs that don't exist everywhere. Yet, private schools do.

Of course that isn't what I am arguing, because that isn't even close to what I wrote. You used an example that does not correlate, nor support, your position, and I was pointing that out. IF the voucher systems existed, then you could argue that private schools are actually competing with public schools, and vice versa, and use the success or failure of the competition as support for your position. As it is, there is no competition.

Quote:
We do, of course. But that doesn't invalidate the program itself. That being said, losses from the public option will be paid for by spending cuts. In other words, it is intended to have no net impact on our deficit.

Losses paid for by spending cuts... the same spending cuts that resulted in a 50% reduction in USPS delivery service, or the same spending cuts that are proposing another 17% reduction in service compounded with a 33% cost increase to the consumer over the last 10 years, and will still be insufficient to cover costs for the next fiscal year?

Do you understand why no one believes those claims, and why this was perhaps the most idiotic comparison the President could use to bolster his case?

Quote:
That's true. But that's not quite the same thing. There are no privatized DoD's operating in an exchange competing directly with the government DoD.

True, but the DOD is supposed to be operating on a competitive bid process in procurement, obstenably to save money and reduce costs, yet I think it is blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer how much politicians interfere with the process to direct money towards special interests.

You think it will be any different with any other government agency?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:40 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Is this what Obama has in store for us?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -warn.html


Quote:
Patients in Health Service hospitals are far more likely to go hungry than criminals in jail, scientists warned yesterday.

They say frail and elderly patients do not get the help they need with meals, and nobody checks whether they get enough to eat.

Despite years of Government promises to tackle poor hospital nutrition, food still arrives cold, and patients often miss out because meal times clash with tests and operations.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Seems to me that's a problem with the private hospitals.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
I could be wrong Aizle, but I believe the NHS are all government hospitals, not private, so I don't understand your comment.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:21 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Ladas wrote:
I could be wrong Aizle, but I believe the NHS are all government hospitals, not private, so I don't understand your comment.



NHS is both a single payer and single provider system in most ways.


Basically, yes, all UK hospitals are funded, administered, and "run by" the government under the National Health Service.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:26 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Ladas wrote:
True, but the DOD is supposed to be operating on a competitive bid process in procurement, obstenably to save money and reduce costs, yet I think it is blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer how much politicians interfere with the process to direct money towards special interests.

You think it will be any different with any other government agency?


This is actually written into government procurement and contracting regulations, on which I just had a class. The DOD is required by regulation to favor small, minority, and female-owned buisnesses in awarding contracts.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:23 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/terry-trip ... ases-costs


So much for "you can keep your own plan".

I thought the line at the end was hilarious.

Quote:
There is no word as to how racisist Towers Perrin is for doing such a survey.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:31 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
Quote:
Among the full survey group, employers expect they would respond to a pay-or-play mandate in the following ways:

37% of employers would provide company-sponsored health coverage that substantially exceeds the standard.
29% of employers would discontinue company-sponsored health coverage and pay the assessment if the per-employee costs of payments to the federal government were substantially lower than their current costs.
26% of employers would provide company-sponsored health coverage at the level of the minimum standard required.
Take note of that "minimum standard required". This could certainly result in a reduction of coverage for those fortunate enough not to have been kicked out of their plans altogether. You will be stretched to find this statement mentioned by the mainstream media unless accompanied by the phrase "according to racist right wing radicals".

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Nitefox, do you have a corroborating site to News Busters? They're pretty bad.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:16 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Monte wrote:
Nitefox, do you have a corroborating site to News Busters? They're pretty bad.



How about the original source for the survey, are they pretty bad?

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
I don't know. No one linked them. I won't go with News Busters - I just don't trust them.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Lack of insurance linked to 45,000 American Deaths per year according to Harvard School of Medicine study.

45,000 deaths. That's ten times the number of soldiers lost in Iraq and Afghanistan (wars that have cost us 1 trillion dollars or more, mind you, more than any Health Care plan currently on the table). That's more than 10 times the number of people that died on 9-11. That's one person every 12 minutes. According to the article, that's more than we lose to drunk driving and homicide combined.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:48 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Monte wrote:
I don't know. No one linked them. I won't go with News Busters - I just don't trust them.



What's to trust? They don't make the news, they just link it and comment. You won't catch anything and you might learn some things you didn't know.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:17 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Monte wrote:
I don't know. No one linked them. I won't go with News Busters - I just don't trust them.


The linked article directly cited its source via hyperlink. As such, may I suggest you read a linked article before naysaying it?

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:20 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Having insurance linked to 98,000 deaths.

Institute for Healthcare Improvement wrote:
The IOM estimates that as many as 98,000 people die each year in US hospitals due to medical injuries.


If those people wouldn't have had healthcare coverage, they wouldn't have died of iatrogenic errors.

/snarkoff

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:23 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
DFK! wrote:
Having insurance linked to 98,000 deaths.

Institute for Healthcare Improvement wrote:
The IOM estimates that as many as 98,000 people die each year in US hospitals due to medical injuries.


If those people wouldn't have had healthcare coverage, they wouldn't have died of iatrogenic errors.

/snarkoff



Clearly, having insurance kills people. Obama wants people to die!

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Nitefox wrote:
Monte wrote:
I don't know. No one linked them. I won't go with News Busters - I just don't trust them.



What's to trust? They don't make the news, they just link it and comment. You won't catch anything and you might learn some things you didn't know.


It's their commentary, and the source of their "news" I question.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:24 am 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Monte wrote:
It's their commentary, and the source of their "news" I question.


Their source is hyperlinked. What about that source causes you to question it?

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:31 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Monte wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Monte wrote:
I don't know. No one linked them. I won't go with News Busters - I just don't trust them.



What's to trust? They don't make the news, they just link it and comment. You won't catch anything and you might learn some things you didn't know.


It's their commentary, and the source of their "news" I question.



The comments yes, ignore them. The source is nothing more than a hyperlink to the thing they are talking about. Try again.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:03 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Monte wrote:
Lack of insurance linked to 45,000 American Deaths per year according to Harvard School of Medicine study.

45,000 deaths. That's ten times the number of soldiers lost in Iraq and Afghanistan (wars that have cost us 1 trillion dollars or more, mind you, more than any Health Care plan currently on the table). That's more than 10 times the number of people that died on 9-11. That's one person every 12 minutes. According to the article, that's more than we lose to drunk driving and homicide combined.



Might want to check that whole Harvard thing...


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-bake ... vard-study


Quote:
Neither she, nor reporter Jim Axelrod, noted that the report was really produced by Physicians for a National Health Program, “the only national physician organization in the United States dedicated exclusively to implementing a single-payer national health program.”


http://www.pnhp.org/

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Ouch.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:28 pm 
Offline
Deuce Master

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 3099
Newsbusters is biased!

_________________
The Dude abides.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Actually, they said that up front. And it was said up front in the NPR story covering the data. Harvard, however, published the study. Do you have a specific objection to the study?

News Busters *is* biased.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Monte wrote:
Actually, they said that up front. And it was said up front in the NPR story covering the data. Harvard, however, published the study. Do you have a specific objection to the study?

News Busters *is* biased.


Just to make sure I understand your position... Reports from CATO and the Heritage Foundation are corporate shills because their funding source, but this group can sponsor a report and it gets no such label?

And is News Busters any more or less biased than FactCheck and MoveOn?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Do you believe that there is a difference between a financial incentive and a political position?

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 207 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group