The Glade 4.0

Men are products of nature. Justness only applies to a person's egotistical perspective.

Anthropomorphic arrogance.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Plato would say otherwise.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Dana Plato?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Plato, as in author of "The Republic."

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Oh, thats a different person.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Matthew 22:21

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Hey, take it up with your parents, man. They're the ones who, as the guardians of your rights when you were a minor, consented on your behalf by birthing and raising you here.

Seriously though, maybe it'll help to think of the contract as being similar to a deed for land, as I believe others tried to point out up-thread. If I sell you some land, and the deed contains a limitation on how that land can be used, that limitation (sometimes) "runs with the land" so that when your kids inherit the land, the limitation is still in place. If your kids want to accept the inheritance, they do so subject to the limitation that was already in place.

Similarly, you can think of the Constitution and the laws passed under its auspices as limitations on the land that is the United States of America. Anyone who accepts the inheritance of citizenship here does so subject to the limitations that are already here.

Or not

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"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one." Charles Mackay

That doesn't really address the moral issue raised RD, it just encourages one to pretend that they don't exist.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

There isn't any moral issue. You get to vote. The candidates elected can repeal or change laws at any time.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

If you think that laws are morally wrong because they exist without your consent, then you're basically an anarchist.

You're just now realizing this about Elmo?

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Not a particularly benevolent anarchist either. When it all falls apart, which Elmo has stated on many occasions he believes it will in his lifetime, he will be prepared to hunt down and execute any who 'violate his rights'.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Hunt down and execute? Quote me.

Am I willing to use whatever force it takes to preserve my rights - absolutely. Am I going to hunt down past infringes of my rights - no.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

You know quite well that the boards where I would find the quotes I need to back up my statement no longer exist.

It is my belief you made such a statement on more than one occasion, but I cannot go back to the dead boards and find them and prove it.

Therefore I withdraw the statement about you hunting down those responsible for, not past transgressions, but, at that presumed future point in in the post apocalyptic or otherwise anarchic time you have predicted as inevitable, current ones you believe exist, i.e. burglary from your home or poaching from your property during your absence.

I don't believe my statement indicated past transgressions at all.

I still believe you will not survive long into the bad times you have predicted, that you will seriously offend someone with your rantings and they will decide you need killing and proceed to do so without bothering to let you know in advance.

You'll still probably outlive me should such a time come.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I guess that you can line me up next to Elmo that in a "post apocalyptic or otherwise anarchic time", I would defend with lethal force my goods and property. Call me nuts. /shrug

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I don't object to him or you defending with lethal force your life or belongings in either the current times or the predicted bad times. I object to the idiotic gleefulness some have shown at having multiple opportunities to defend with lethal force.

I object to advertising your intent to do so, which not only proclaims your naivete but advertises the point that you have something worth taking, beyond your life.

Its kind of like the soldiers that talk about battles they were never in, talking and stealing the glory of other people's deeds. All the while not realizing that the soldiers that were there never talk about it, aren't all that proud of it, and would rather forget it entirely.

Such a bad times world would be a once and done, not a video game to play over and over, resurrecting with the click of a button after you had been killed. There would be no glory, no fame as the big bad anti-hero protecting his rights against all comers. There would only be a sudden death as someone bigger and badder than you plans and executes that plan better than you.

Your best bet for survival and prosperity in most probable post disaster civilizations not written by heroic story tellers would be to join a civilized group and contribute to the best of your ability. Getting along with others, sharing, teaching, and learning would not only up the chances of your own long term survival, but also that of those around you.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

You couldn't go back to live boards and find it because I'd never make such a statement. Thats ok though, you've never been too good about actually paying attention to what I've said so I don't expect reliability.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

From the drivel you just posted in reference to what you believe my plans are shows only one thing; you don't know me and you know less about my plans.

Enjoy the rest of the time you get to live well on the backs of future generations for its not going to last much longer.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Is that a threat Elmarnieh?

It could easily be taken for one.

For that matter, does anyone else have an opinion of Elmarnieh that resembles mine?

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Let's not go down that road, guys. What Elm would or would not do in some hypothetical, post-apocalyptic world is pretty much the definition of a stupid basis for an argument.

Then why bring it up, repeatedly?

I've not seen this "idiotic gleefulness" you object to.

If I am advertising it at all, I am advertising it on an internet forum dedicated, initially, to a video game. Those facts alone "advertise" that I have something worth taking far beyond a statement that I would defend my goods and property. My naïveté, as you call it, pales in comparison to one who posts intimate details of their life, such as family and work, complete with details as to location - with a pictorial timeline. I guess I'm just naïve though.

Or, is it kind of like stating bluntly what you're willing to do when your life and the lives of your loved one's is threatened? Nah, must be like an old man attempting to wow the "youngsters" with tales of his misspent middle-age, all the while trying to maintain a veneer of propriety.

I guess it's better not to have a plan at all, and hope someone else takes care of you.

Absolutely. I guess I believe that being able to survive long enough to find such a "civilized group", and protect that civilized group's goods and property might require a little more than trusting in the off chance that they've set up shop across the street and are willing and able to protect you.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Believe what you like.

The fall is not coming and the time and effort you spend on preparing for it will seem rather silly in your latter years, but then that is what I believe. Your time would be better spent planning for a more reality based future.

My plans are to have my ashes scattered after I die, you won't be able to come piss on my grave if I'm wrong.

Its your life and your money, do as you like. Just don't expect all of us to buy into your game and kiss the hem of your survival suit.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Yup, I guess it'll seem silly to me that I'd spent all that time and effort hunting, fishing, gardening and maintaining my vehicles and home. I'll probably wish I hadn't learned those useless skills. Hell, now that I think about it, this venison jerky is a bit spicy. Why did I ever learn to hunt, dress, butcher and prepare that deer? Oh, that's right, it fed my family for weeks. Guess my reality is as real as the food in my daughters' bellies. Yup I'm sure going to think it's silly in my latter years as I recall my 3 year old daughter chasing the fish she dropped after pulling it from Aspen Lake herself. Man what a waste! How silly I have been!

Oh, and as for your "survival suit" hyperbole, Alinsky would be proud.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko