The Glade 4.0

If they are smart (which includes being wise) yes they will for they would have aquired those skills.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.”

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Ok Heinlein.

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Holy shitsnacks!

States aren't entitled to representation, only individuals. This is unfortunate.

You're right though, the states don't have representation at the federal level. You do. As such, there is no "taxation without representation" occurring at this point in time. You're essentially stating that the democratic process as a whole is "taxation without representation," and while I support your right to hold anarcho-libertarian viewpoints, they don't make your logic (or at least your branding of this process in a particular light) correct.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I always find it hilarious that libertarians, the supposed champions of efficiency, are so against labor specialization. If learning to shoot a gun and survive off the land is a prerequisite for everyone, then civilization has no point whatsoever.

States actually are entitled to, and do have, representation at the Federal level. They're called Senators. The method of selection is by vote of the people of the state, but they clearly represent the State as a whole since A) that's the population that votes for them, as opposed to a sub-district thereof and B) there clearly is nothing else they represent.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The states have Senators representing them. The people have Congressmen. Where exactly is the lack of representation?

No one is having their money stolen. Those states without a deficit should demand that their Congressmen and Senators vote against this nonsense.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

We aren't. Know what you get paid to do better than anything else, its just wise to know how to do a lot of things.

I've met grown men who don't know how to mop. Some people don't know how to pump gas or change a flat.

Because a thing is your job does not mean that you can ignore the rest of the universe of knowledge and expect no consequences from that decision.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The states do not have Senators representing them. Haven't for a long long time.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Are there not state level elected congressional representatives known as senators?

Its not my fault they're all tools elected by other constituents. I didn't vote for Reid. I'll take some blame for Ensign though.

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Holy shitsnacks!

The representation of Senators by states was done away with when they became elected by the people.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The intent was originally that the Senators would represent the interests of the State government -- defend the States against encroaching Federal power. Since all (?) the States have lazily turned over selection of Senators to popular elections, the Senators no longer have an interest in representing the State, and instead represent the People of the State they hail from. They are no different from Representatives, in their interests and motivations, except that they are sheltered from whim more, and thus more likely to get away with behaving like tools for 4-5 years at a time, so long as they have an epiphany and put on a good show every 6th.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Yes, but are they state level representatives in your congress that are elected by the people?

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Holy shitsnacks!

I assumed you would have realized I was speaking of individuals of those several states, not the states themselves. I should have been more clear.

If the states who do not require federal aid are out numbered (in congress) by those who do, and despite the individuals of those states protesting, and regardless of how their Senators and Representatives vote, the deck is stacked against them. Federal funds will go to those states.

After this point, going forward it indeed does become taxation without representation. The following year those states would be even less likely to balance their budgets, because they can count on others to pay their bills for them, despite the feelings of the others, who have no say in how they construct their budget.

When California will knowingly spend more than it can afford, because they know taxes assessed on others will pay the burden, the Federal government is enabling California to tax citizens of other states without representation.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

If the federal government bails my bosses out, I hope they put even harsher restrictions on them than they did the companies that received bail out money.

At least there shouldn't be another bonus fiasco.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Thats the thing, when congress bails out... well... it's own constituents, it almost has to be lax.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

It's not about "ignoring the rest of the universe of knowledge." You've stated that this specific skill-set, namely how to use a weapon and live off the land, is absolutely essential, in fact you have said you would favor a return to conditions where these skills are necessary for survival. You do realize that the main reason humans moved into cities and created civilization is pretty much because they didn't want to waste their entire lives learning these specific skills?

To be fair, you need to approach this point with the knowledge that he doesn't seek this at all, in fact he only would seek it given that it would provide a better opportunity to those who agree to a fundamental absolute of property rights to grow a new society in that image.

Anyone with knowledge of his posting history and personal character understand that he doesn't wish to see mankind mired in that place, quite the opposite he sees it as a spring board to an even more industrial and prosperous future for man kind.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

This still doesn't make it taxation without representation. You've been represented.

Being outnumbered by the votes on the other side isn't "the deck being stacked against you, nor does it mean you're being taxed without representation. It just means you're in the minority. Being on the losing side of a vote does not mean you've not been represented adequately.

You don't need a say in how those states with unbalanced budgets spend their money, only in whether your taxes go to bail them out, and if you lose despite your say, that's just the breaks. It does not mean you're opporessed, robbed, or otherwise put upon in any unfair way. There is no entitlement to have your own way in any system of government, except those run by despots, if and only if you are the despot in question.

More importantly, this is why we have a Senate. It doesn't matter how badly the people of states with poor budgetary decisions outnumber the states that can manage their budget, unless the number of states with unbalanced budgets also outnumber the states without. If it does, well, then, again those are the breaks. Those states with balanced budgets can always intentionally overspend in order to get their share back. That creates its own set of problems, but there's never going to be a political situation with no problems.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Why do you think of libertarians as "champions of efficiency"? That is not a definition I have ever considered accurate for their positions... self reliance, yes, but efficiency.

I think he means that he thinks libertarians see themselves as champions of efficiency, mostly by promoting the efficiency of the private sector over the government.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

It's also worth noting that the views Elm is expressing here are more anarcho-capitalist than mainstream libertarian.

ARTHUR: Old woman!
DENNIS: Man!
ARTHUR: Old Man, sorry. What knight live in that castle over there?
DENNIS: I'm thirty seven.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I'm thirty seven -- I'm not old!
ARTHUR: Well, I can't just call you `Man'.
DENNIS: Well, you could say `Dennis'.
ARTHUR: Well, I didn't know you were called `Dennis.'
DENNIS: Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you?
ARTHUR: I did say sorry about the `old woman,' but from the behind
you looked--
DENNIS: What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior!
ARTHUR: Well, I AM king...
DENNIS: Oh king, eh, very nice. An' how'd you get that, eh? By
exploitin' the workers -- by 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma
which perpetuates the economic an' social differences in our society!
If there's ever going to be any progress--
WOMAN: Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here. Oh -- how d'you do?
ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
Who's castle is that?
WOMAN: King of the who?
ARTHUR: The Britons.
WOMAN: Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.
WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous
collective.
DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.
A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--
ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives
in that castle?
WOMAN: No one live there.
ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,
[angels sing]
her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur
from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,
Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power
just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just
because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd
put me away!
ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that,
eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me,
you saw it didn't you?

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Holy shitsnacks!

I love you man!

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In time, this too shall pass.

/represses the Llama-cousin.

You're an Alpaca now! /whip

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Holy shitsnacks!