The Glade 4.0

Yup. sounds like a conservative to me.

Very true.



It depends. An iatrogenic error is a medical error. Neglect is separate. While the line is of course blurred they are very distinct from a legal and medical perspective.

That's the primary reason I wanted to clarify that this is very much neglect. Nobody forgot their clamp inside the patient, causing septicemia and death. They wouldn't give him water and failed to give him medication.

Now, perhaps, the failure to give him medication could be considered a systemic iatrogenic error, but I wouldn't say so given the nature of outside prescriptions in the UK system.



I agree entirely.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I'm not a federal employee and haven't been since my stint in the Army was up in '76.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Wrong forum, TheRiov. Not to mention the fact that your port is ignorant, and erroneous. Most of us who advocate an Austrian system, do so because we know how much our current model actually hurts the poor by creating a permanent underclass, and creating racial preferences in hiring actually institutionalizes racial strife. The list of these sorts of grievances is lengthy.

Socialism actually hurts the poor more than anyone else, because when you discourage wealth creation, those who have the least are hurt the most. When food prices rise, it is their children who go hungry. When fuel prices rise, it is they who can't heat their homes.

Conservatism has the benefit of a forward thinking compassion. Given that, it would seem to me that if one really cared, they would want to actually help, instead of simply doing things that make them feel good about themselves, or the even lazier, doing nothing more than holding opinions that make them feel good about themselves.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Socialism is the result of caring about the poor and feeling about it. Capitalism is the result of caaring about the poor and thinking about it.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Ok, glad to see that only some people are worth backing up your own statements for. Now, would you mind backing up your statements for those of us that are not under federal employ and have never been?

Bookmarked.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Rynar, are you aware of how much government regulation of nurses is already in place here in the US, and how useful that regulation is? Here's the listing of disciplinary actions for Arizona. How would you implement some sort of self-regulation as an alternative to state nursing boards?

As to the stuff in the article, yeah, its bad. But there's only two sentences in it that you use to demonstrate that the problem is "systemic", whereas it could be argued that the article only demonstrates one hospital with a (rather apparently large) problem. But on the other hand, this also isn't the first story I've read about neglect problems in the UK's 4 healthcare services systems. This could be argued that the problem resides not in the fact that the systems are run by the government, but that its a problem unique to the UK's healthcare industry as a whole.

Plus there are the fundamental differences between the UK and US systems. Frankly, the differences are so vast that I just don't see a truly "UK-like" seizure of the healthcare industry here in the States you say the Democrats are pushing. To put it bluntly, there's no way in hell the government can afford to buyout, seize, or even run something along the lines of 90% of the US's hospitals in an attempt to match the UK government's 92-94% ownership of their nation's hospitals.

Another big difference between the two systems is the delivery of nursing care in hospitals. In the UK, doctors in hospitals do a lot more stuff, stuff that in the US a nurse is expected to do. In the UK, if the procedure is at all invasive, even just the placement of an IV, a doctor will likely do it. For the most part, docs in the states do far less "hands on" day to day care, with the exception of ER and intensive care docs. I've had two Britsh nurses I've worked with tell me that a US RN working in a care center is more along the lines of what a UK hospital nurse does. This could be one contributing factor to some of the neglect issues the UK system seems to be having.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

You produce more self-regulation, and draw more people dedicated to care taking into the field, I would move further away from federal regulation, and get the government less involved.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Rynar, take a look at some of the disciplinary decisions listed on the link I provided. Keep in mind, this is a state nursing board...the federal government has little to no involvement. Your amended thread title still doesn't make sense.

You are aware that the UK's NHS is actually 4 separate regional entities, right?

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

I'm not talking about the title. I'm talking about the article in the OP itself, and something the article says is systemic in a major medical institution in the UK. The system we are seeking to emulate.

I'm going to change the title again, because as I said earlier, I don't believe it's a perfect title either.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I'm not all that sure that self-regulation has been all that consistently effective when it's been implemented. Classic sereotypical example could be something along the lines of a Beureau of Medical Examiners going soft on a doctor appearing before them by basically handing out a wristslap that irks the public when it makes the news.

Plus, I don't see people turning away from nursing because of nanny state regulation. Mostly, I see people running away from nursing because they had no idea what they were getting in to with regards to the job itself. Dramatic TV shows can't demontstrate some of the truly unpleasant aspects of the job. Wiping butts just ain't good TV.

I guess its the paradox that keeps me from embracing libertarianism. I'm big on personal responsibility, but in the end I can only truly trust in my own sense of personal responsibility, as well as that of a few people that I know well. The public at large, however? Not so much.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

It's not that the good ones are running away, it's that the hacks are running towards it.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Which, in a perfectly circular argument, is why there's oversight by state nursing boards.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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