The Glade 4.0

If we're going to factor in other things like housing, utilities and health care because food prices have dropped, lets also factor in the extravagances people have now that they did not previously.

Cell phones, flat screen tvs, cable access, internet services, air conditioning etc. With the exception of air conditioning, which was hardly common, none of those were available to people in the mid 60's. Yet how many "poor" have them now? Are any of them necessities?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Not to mention cigarettes, booze, and drugs.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Heh, my state representative is trying to pass a measure in the state House to not allow people receiving state benefits to have cable TV, buy booze, cigarettes, or own a cell phone if they have more than one phone line. I seriously hope it passes.

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The Dude abides.

I wish to subscribe to his newsletter.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Um No.

As good intentioned as this sounds, It's the same kind of "post game rules changing" that the government is using against the banks. Not to mention the enforcibility of it all. Those that still want to have these thing could probably get them black market or in someone elses name, and it would only hurt those who are using it as a hand up and not a hand out.

Also it sets a precident that government can come and take your TV, booze or cell phone if they feels it's necessary after all you benefit from police and fire service too right?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I miss Arizona.

My state rep is probably trying to pass a bill funding HD satellite TV, keg parties, crack, and giving free ipod touch's to anyone making less than 40K a year.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Rori, it isn't supposed to be a game, so there are no rules changes. People paying for what are basically sold to them as emergency maintenance services for the poor have a right to dictate exactly what they want to pay for, and who they are willing to subsidise; as well as the full authority to change those things. If someone is coming to me for money because they say they can't afford to eat, but in their own mind they have enough to splurge on cable TV (which for the record I do not allow in my home), then maybe they can afford to be hungry while they watch their MSNBC, and think about the clearly flawed decision making process that led them to this point in their lives.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Police and fire protection extends to everyone, regardless of their situation.

Moreover, it doesn't set a precedent that the government can come take anything. It sets a precedent that they won't give you money if you're spending your own on items that are luxuries (and no, a cell phone is not a necessity.)

How it hurts someone who is using welfare to get back on their feet to be told they can't waste money is beyond me.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

It isn't about a helping hand up, it's about an "I'm OK, Your OK" lifestyle subsidisation in the effort to buy a permenent section of the voting block.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Telling people they can't buy booze, cigarettes, cell phones, or cable TV is buying a section of the voting block?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Isn't this essentially what food stamps are supposed to do? Instead they get sold for less than face value.

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I still see this as government trying to run peoples life, the thing that we the conservatives are suuposed to be against.
If we simply don't extend the gravy train forever, then people will have to straiten up and fly right. We won't need to impose our will upon them.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

See, this (proposal for a?) bill is going about it the wrong way. You don't ban the services, you cut off the entitlement cash to anybody whose using them.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

That's exactly what this proposal is doing; it's refusing to extend the gravy train to people who won't straighten up and fly right.

If you're taking public money as a form of income, you should expect the government to exercise a certain degree of control over what you do with it. Public employees often have restrictions on their lifestyle; for example some police departments prohibit smoking at all by their officers. The military places many restrictions on its members. States and other organizations that get public funds also have to meet certain conditions to get Federal money, and presumably towns and counties must meet conditions to get state money.

This is just extending the same principle to individuals. Don't like it? Get off the dole.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's mainly a practical problem of food stamps specifically. A different implementation would not necessarily have the same problems.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Food debit card that requires ID.

But not everyone has an ID so that's discriminatory

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For the record, cell phones under Screeling's rep's bill are allowed if there is no other phone in the home. Good exception, to my mind.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

The government is paying for people to have cell phones:

https://www.safelinkwireless.com/Enroll ... /home.aspx

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No no no, that wasn't my point of disagreement. I was talking about current political motives for less restrictive entitlement programs.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

You buy groceries for me on your food stamp debit card. I'll buy beer for you with my cash right behind you. I'll put my bag in your trunk and you put your bag and my trunk.

You can waste a lot of taxpayer money making it harder but you can't separate a free adict from his/her supply. I'm not even sure you can separate incarcerated ones.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Black market dealers generally aren't in the habit of being paid in groceries.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

My ex used to buy foodstamps for $.40 on the dollar and use it for groceries because it freed up cash to be used elsewhere. She'd do this in a heartbeat.

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You can separate an incarcerated addict from their supply, just not with 100% success. If the addict has resources, they'll get it. Most addicts, however, don't.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

And that's fine. That's the point of food stamps. And you can even go and spend that extra money on booze or drugs or whatever. However, if you change the system you can make it harder to do this.

As for the "exchange food for beer/pot/whatever" thing, that might work here and there, but drug dealers are not going to start accepting groceries in bulk any time soon.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."