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What to do?
Flush the beta 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
Shut up and deal with the beta 27%  27%  [ 6 ]
Put the beta in the goldfish tank and let God sort em out 55%  55%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 22
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:11 pm 
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The Dancing Cat
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Wow this thread fell apart. Anyways, the beta hasn't eaten the goldfish. All seems harmonious.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Maybe the gold fishies are abiding their time for an all out assult on the beta while you're away and not looking.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:59 am 
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This is really not a good idea. Even if the betta and the goldfish get along with one another (I'm more concerned about the betta, actually), goldfish aquarium conditions are really bad for bettas. Two major issues:

1) Goldfish and bettas have radically different needs in terms of temperature, aeration, filtration, and nutrition. Your goldfish tank is going to have far too much aeration and filtration for your betta, and will be too cold. Bettas are quite carnivorous, as well. They really do need special "betta food", and not just any old fish food. Even "tropical" fish food is unsuitable for bettas.

2) Bettas are really prone to infection by bacteria, fungi, and parasites. They need their water to be kept really, really clean, especially if their water is too cold, which horks their immune system. This isn't that hard to do if they're in their own tank; bettas are pretty clean fish as long you don't overfeed them. Goldfish, on the other hand, are nasty, filthy fish. They really are. That's fine if you're a goldfish, but your betta is going to catch ich and die.

Aggression is really backseat issue to the environmental problems. But as far as that goes, the goldfish are probably more likely to kill the betta than vice-versa. Bettas are actually pretty docile towards other species of fish, as long as they don't have large fins that could be confused for another betta. Your betta will probably leave the goldfish alone. The more common problem is that bettas are slow-moving, and their big billowy fins makes irresistible targets for "nibblers" like goldfish. This usually results in your betta getting infected fin wounds (see "goldfish are filthy", above).

A small, separate betta setup is pretty easy and low maintenance. I can give you some general guidelines if you'd like. There's a ton of misinformation out there about bettas. Unfortunately, nearly all of the "popular knowledge" about bettas is quite wrong.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:50 am 
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Stathol wrote:
There's a ton of misinformation out there about bettas.


Not the least of which is how to spell their name. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:40 am 
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Stathol wrote:
This is really not a good idea. Even if the betta and the goldfish get along with one another (I'm more concerned about the betta, actually), goldfish aquarium conditions are really bad for bettas. Two major issues:

1) Goldfish and bettas have radically different needs in terms of temperature, aeration, filtration, and nutrition. Your goldfish tank is going to have far too much aeration and filtration for your betta, and will be too cold. Bettas are quite carnivorous, as well. They really do need special "betta food", and not just any old fish food. Even "tropical" fish food is unsuitable for bettas.

2) Bettas are really prone to infection by bacteria, fungi, and parasites. They need their water to be kept really, really clean, especially if their water is too cold, which horks their immune system. This isn't that hard to do if they're in their own tank; bettas are pretty clean fish as long you don't overfeed them. Goldfish, on the other hand, are nasty, filthy fish. They really are. That's fine if you're a goldfish, but your betta is going to catch ich and die.

Aggression is really backseat issue to the environmental problems. But as far as that goes, the goldfish are probably more likely to kill the betta than vice-versa. Bettas are actually pretty docile towards other species of fish, as long as they don't have large fins that could be confused for another betta. Your betta will probably leave the goldfish alone. The more common problem is that bettas are slow-moving, and their big billowy fins makes irresistible targets for "nibblers" like goldfish. This usually results in your betta getting infected fin wounds (see "goldfish are filthy", above).

A small, separate betta setup is pretty easy and low maintenance. I can give you some general guidelines if you'd like. There's a ton of misinformation out there about bettas. Unfortunately, nearly all of the "popular knowledge" about bettas is quite wrong.


Are we talking about the same kind of fish? They are supposedly one of the hardiest fish out there.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:44 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
Are we talking about the same kind of fish? They are supposedly one of the hardiest fish out there.


Yeah, seriously. Every Beta I've had has been ill or had any probs, even when I was young and irresponsible and didn't clean the tank in 6 months or go a month without feeding it...those fish are super tough.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:38 am 
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You can always start peeing in the fish tank.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:47 am 
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Start?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:52 am 
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/high-five

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Are we talking about the same kind of fish? They are supposedly one of the hardiest fish out there.

Sort of. Bettas can tolerate a wider range of conditions than most tropicals, but tolerating or merely surviving is not the same thing as thriving. And they're really only "hardy" if you're meeting their basic needs as tropical fish.

If your betta spends most of his time just sitting there (especially towards the bottom of the tank) with his fins draped close to his body ("clamped fins" 1 2 3), this indicates that he is not feeling well at all. He might survive this way, but it's no fun for him or you. Unfortunately, most people think this is "normal" for bettas, and are disappointed with them as pets. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that you're in this category.

Though slow-moving (as compared to, say, guppies), a healthy, happy betta is actually fairly active. They should spend a good portion of their day swimming around, showing off their plumage, and curiously watching things around them. A healthy betta is also prettier, having brighter coloration and holding its fins out and away from its body for better display (1 2 3 4) They'll also work obsessively on their bubble nests even if there are no females present. I'll wager that 99% of betta owners have never seen their betta do this.

Occasional fin-clamping is nothing to worry about if your betta is otherwise active -- it may have just tired itself out. And sometimes they do like to go curl up in a cave, if you have one (particularly if their tank gets any direct sunlight). But they should spend most of their time out and about where you can see and enjoy them. Active bettas also live longer and are less prone to disease, which means less work for you.

That said, if you you really want to keep the betta in the same tank as the goldfish, this isn't entirely impossible. At a bare minimum, get a small tank heater and a thermometer. Raise the temp of the tank (gradually) to about 76-77F. This will make your betta much happier, and it's still within the range that goldfish will find pleasant. Because it's co-habiting with other, messier fish, treating the tank water with a little bit of Aquarisol (or similar) would be a very good idea. It's cheap and lasts a long time. Of course, you also need to dechlorinate it, but that's not unique to bettas. Chlorine is bad for pretty much all fish. You might even find some kind of all-in-one betta water conditioner at your local pet store that dechlorinates, mineralizes, and adds anti-fungul/bacterial agents. Another good thing to add (believe it or not) is rock salt or aquarium salt -- somewhere between 1/4 teaspoon to a tablespoon per gallon. Salt is a "gentler" way of making the water less appealing to bacteria and fungus than chlorine (which you should be neutralizing).

As for aeration and filtration, you don't really have any choice except to use what's necessary for goldfish. Bettas don't like that much water motion, but it isn't bad for them, per se. You'll just have to live with the fact that your betta will probably never build bubble nests because of the surface disruption. He may also develop shorter, less impressive fins because of the extra water current. They only grow out their full length plumage as an aid for swimming in still, shallow water.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:50 pm 
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Actually I don't fall into either category. I am an unwilling fish owner. My ex left them here and I am just tolerating them. I am not a fish enthusiast, nor do I want to be. I have a pet that I love and that is my dog. As for the fish I just don't want to be a dick to them for having a shitty owner that left them with me. I am not expecting any value/entertainment from them.

With that said I'll pick up a heater to make sure all the fish are sufficiently comfy.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:26 pm 
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I don't know what size of tank you've got, but these are supposed to be really nice (and cheap) for smaller tanks:

Hydor USA Inc 7 Watt Mini Submersible Heater - up to 5 gallons ($9)
Hydor Mini Heater Aquarium Heater 15W - 5 to 10 gallons ($10)

Water conditioners:
Dechlorinators/heavy metal neutralizers (~$6)
Aquarium salt ($1)
Aquari-sol ($2)

Om nom nom:
Betta food ($1)

All things considered, fish are cheap.

You only need to use a few drops per gallon of the water conditioners whenever you change the water, so $9 worth of conditioners will probably last you 6 months or more. Don't add them directly to the aquarium. Of these, only the dechlorinator is really essential. But IMHO, $0.50/mo is small price to keep your fish from getting ich.

A single jar of food will probably last a month or more, depending on your betta's appetite. Bettas aren't gluttons. Many don't care to be fed more than every other day, but some will want to eat daily. Either way, don't feed them more than they'll eat over about a 5 minute period.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:57 pm 
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I haven't fed that beta for about 2 months. It likes algae :P

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:59 pm 
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I'm really not trying to beat a drum, here, but bettas are almost entirely carnivorous fish. There's no way it's not malnourished if it's had to subsist on nothing but algae. :|

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:38 pm 
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You could start dating a girl with a fish tank...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
{snip}Goldfish, on the other hand, are nasty, filthy fish. They really are.{snip}


Not to derail or nothing, but, aren't Goldfish pretty much just carp?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
You could start dating a girl with a fish tank...

How do you think I got these fish? :P

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:21 pm 
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I stand corrected sorry Hop.

You could start dating a girl with a fish tank that actually likes keeping fish, and is responsible enough for them herself.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:40 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
You can always start peeing in the fish tank.


How would our resident deuce master solve this fish tank problem?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
Screeling wrote:
You can always start peeing in the fish tank.


How would our resident deuce master solve this fish tank problem?


POO!
THE!
TANK!

POO!
THE!
TANK!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Aethien wrote:
Not to derail or nothing, but, aren't Goldfish pretty much just carp?

Pretty much, yep. Koi are carp, too.

When I say that they're "filthy" fish, what I really mean that the produce a lot of ammonium, both absolutely and per unit of body weight.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:36 pm 
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OK, that's what I thought. I'm just a product of the Midwest, where the only good carp was usually a dead carp, if you caught one. The ammonium comment makes sense, but I suppose they're technically no cleaner or dirtier than other fish, just because they're bottom-feeders.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:00 pm 
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Plecostomus and Corydoras aren't particularly dirty fish, and they're bottom feeders.

Goldfish just don't have efficient digestive systems. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:45 am 
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So... four years later and Duncan McCleod of the Clan McCleod died of natural causes. There can be only none. RIP lil dude.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Aww, that's sad to hear. Good for you for at least giving him the best life you could. Did you become more attached to him over the years?


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