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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:32 am 
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All of South America thinks the Falklands should go to Argentina

Convenient how it's suddenly an issue when the Brits start wanting to drill for oil. Never mind that the Islands have been British for almost 180 years, and the only claim Argentina really has is "they're near us". I guess Denamrk should cede Greenland to Canada too, eh? And I'm absolutely certain the actual inhabitants of the Falklands really want to trade their rights as British citizens for Argentina. :roll:

You'll not Argentina has ruled out military action... that they have no real chance of taking in the first place.

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Leaders of all 32 countries supported Argentine claims to the islands and condemned oil drilling operations that are already under way.

The row erupted after a UK firm began drilling for oil off the Falkland Islands and Argentina objected.

Buenos Aires has ruled out military action and is pursuing talks at the UN.


What is the geographic, the political or economic explanation for England to be in Las Malvinas? Could it be because England is a permanent member of the UN's Security Council where they can do everything and the others nothing?

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva


New US-free Americas bloc planned
In a statement, the leaders reaffirmed "backing for Argentina's legitimate rights in its sovereignty dispute with the United Kingdom relating to the 'Malvinas Question'".

The statement also urged the two governments to "renew negotiations in order to find in the shortest time possible a just, peaceful and definitive solution to the dispute".

Meanwhile Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva called on the UN to debate Argentina's sovereignty claim.

"What is the geographic, the political or economic explanation for England [sic] to be in Las Malvinas?" he asked.

"Could it be because England is a permanent member of the UN's Security Council [where] they can do everything and the others nothing?"

Drilling operation

Argentine Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana is due to meet UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday.


ANALYSIS
Andy Gallacher, BBC News, Cancun

For the Argentine government the Cancun summit has been a huge success.

They have received unanimous backing condemning Britain's oil drilling activities in the Falkland Islands and backing its claims of sovereignty over the long disputed archipelago.

Leaders from 32 nations spanning Latin America and the Caribbean backed what is becoming an increasingly bitter dispute between the British and Argentine governments.

Backing on this scale by so many nations is now bound to give the Argentines renewed fervour in their claims and calls for the British government to negotiate sovereignty.

Argentina and Britain went to war over the South Atlantic islands, which Argentina calls the Malvinas, in 1982, after Buenos Aires invaded them.

UK forces wrested back control of the territory, held by Britain since 1833, during a seven-week war that killed 649 Argentine and 255 British service personnel.

The British-contracted rig Ocean Guardian began drilling 100km (62 miles) north of the Falklands on Monday.

The drilling operation in the disputed waters off the Falkland Islands could yield millions of barrels of oil and the British government says it will take all necessary measures to protect the archipelago.

But Buenos Aires has ruled out military action and is trying to pressure Britain into negotiations on sovereignty.

The Argentine foreign minister is due to meet with the UN Secretary General in New York as they continue their diplomatic offensive.

Also at the two-day summit of the Rio Group and the Caribbean Community (Caricom) in Mexico, leaders agreed to set up a new regional body without the US and Canada.

The new bloc would be an alternative to the Organisation of American States (OAS), the main forum for regional affairs in the past 50 years.


But where does Obama come into this, you ask?

In a brilliant move designed to continue doing nothing

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Washington refused to endorse British claims to sovereignty over the Falkland Islands yesterday as the diplomatic row over oil drilling in the South Atlantic intensified in London, Buenos Aires and at the UN.

Despite Britain’s close alliance with the US, the Obama Administration is determined not to be drawn into the issue. It has also declined to back Britain’s claim that oil exploration near the islands is sanctioned by international law, saying that the dispute is strictly a bilateral issue.


Never mindthat the British are apparently willing to talk

It's somehow a violation of Argentine sovereignty to drill for oil on their continental shelf. Clearly, Canada is violating U.S. sovereignty by drilling in North America too!! :roll: and vice versa.

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Argentina said earlier this month that it strongly opposed energy exploration on its continental shelf. "What they're doing is illegitimate ... it's a violation of our sovereignty. We will do everything necessary to defend and preserve our rights," Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana said.


It couldn't be that you're just pissed that you're not going to be getting the money, could it?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:53 am 
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I believe official neutrality regarding the competing claims has always been the US position, DE. Obama's not doing anything new here. Basically, the UK and Argentina are both ridiculously touchy about this issue, so the US doesn't want to get involved.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:56 am 
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Argentina said earlier this month that it strongly opposed energy exploration on its continental shelf. "What they're doing is illegitimate ... it's a violation of our sovereignty. We will do everything necessary to defend and preserve our rights," Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana said.


Which includes what exactly?

You've ruled out military action (which is pretty lolworthy anyway)... so what can you *really* do to Britain?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:01 am 
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They'll kick the British Ambassador and staff out of the country?

They won't import any British goods?

They'll vote against every British proposal in the UN?

They won't buy any of the oil from the Falklands/Malvinas?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:34 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
I believe official neutrality regarding the competing claims has always been the US position, DE. Obama's not doing anything new here. Basically, the UK and Argentina are both ridiculously touchy about this issue, so the US doesn't want to get involved.


And it's a stupid position. Britain is a major ally. Argentina is... a vacation spot. How does it benefit us to not back a major ally that's backed us on quite a few things?

Moreover, it's been a nonissue until recently. It's only because of the oil drilling that it's coming to the forefront. It may have been a point of stupidity for a number of administrations, but it's now becoming a more important point of stupidity, and it's his to deal with.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:38 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
I believe official neutrality regarding the competing claims has always been the US position, DE. Obama's not doing anything new here. Basically, the UK and Argentina are both ridiculously touchy about this issue, so the US doesn't want to get involved.

Depends on if you consider the offer of material and logistic support to England during the Falklands War, a resolution by both houses of Congress in support of England in the conflict, and termination of arms supplies to Argentina as "official neutrality".


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:40 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Moreover, it's been a nonissue until recently.

Its only been a non-issues to US media. I don't believe the issue has ever left the light in Argentina, and was actually an inclusion in their 1994 constitution when the government reformed.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:41 am 
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Micheal wrote:
They'll kick the British Ambassador and staff out of the country?

They won't import any British goods?

They'll vote against every British proposal in the UN?

They won't buy any of the oil from the Falklands/Malvinas?


Evidently rant and scream that it's not fair that they can't use the U.N. to make Britain give up territory to it.

You'll notice they're avoiding asking for any sort of referendum or anything.

Since the Islanders wish to remain British

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Depends on if you consider the offer of material and logistic support to England during the Falklands War, a resolution by both houses of Congress in support of England in the conflict, and termination of arms supplies to Argentina as "official neutrality".


Aye, that's why I said neutral "regarding the competing claims." We did back England's right to use force in response to the Argentine takeover, but as far as I know, we never took sides on the underlying sovereignty dispute, which is all that's at issue now.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
I believe official neutrality regarding the competing claims has always been the US position, DE. Obama's not doing anything new here. Basically, the UK and Argentina are both ridiculously touchy about this issue, so the US doesn't want to get involved.


And it's a stupid position. Britain is a major ally. Argentina is... a vacation spot. How does it benefit us to not back a major ally that's backed us on quite a few things?


Britain is a major ally, but Latin America, which universally backs Argentina's position, is a major trading region for us. If Argentina invades the Falklands, I'm sure we'll back Britain's right to respond again, but so long as this is just a war of words, it's in our interests to keep our noses out of it and avoid seriously pissing off either side. It definitely does need to be handled with some finesse, though. For whatever reason, Britain is every bit as touchy about this issue as the folks in Latin America are.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Yeah, in a war of words, I don't see how US support would sway anyone so I'm OK with the "It's not our problem" approach. If bullets start flying, I'd hope we side with the non-aggressor.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Trade with all nations, entangling alliances with none - should be our international creed.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:45 pm 
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It's a matter between Argentina and the UK. It's very appropriate that we remain neutral. Not only that, but neutrality inherently favors the Country in current possession, or the stronger of the two. In both cases, this is the UK.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:23 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
I believe official neutrality regarding the competing claims has always been the US position, DE. Obama's not doing anything new here. Basically, the UK and Argentina are both ridiculously touchy about this issue, so the US doesn't want to get involved.


And it's a stupid position. Britain is a major ally. Argentina is... a vacation spot. How does it benefit us to not back a major ally that's backed us on quite a few things?


Britain is a major ally, but Latin America, which universally backs Argentina's position, is a major trading region for us. If Argentina invades the Falklands, I'm sure we'll back Britain's right to respond again, but so long as this is just a war of words, it's in our interests to keep our noses out of it and avoid seriously pissing off either side. It definitely does need to be handled with some finesse, though. For whatever reason, Britain is every bit as touchy about this issue as the folks in Latin America are.


The U.K.is a much bigger trading partner for us than any individual Latin American country, almost twice as much as Brazil, the only country in our top 10.

As for it being in our interests to avoid pissing off either side, refusing to back Britain is definitely a step in the direction of pissing them off. They already fought one war for the islands, the islanders themselves want to be British, and yet the rest of the world won't tell Argentina to STFU already, just because they're near your country doesn't make them yours.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:34 pm 
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What about The Monroe Doctrine?

From what I can make out of the whole messy history the British didn't move in until after the doctrine was implemented.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:50 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:


Functionally obsolete by WWI.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
The U.K.is a much bigger trading partner for us than any individual Latin American country, almost twice as much as Brazil, the only country in our top 10.


Indeed, but trade with Latin America as a whole is vastly larger than with Britain. US exports to Latin America, in fact, rival exports to the entire EU. Not to mention that we have significant non-trade interests in the region - drug interdiction, immigration issues, a huge number of American residents and citizens with personal and family connections in Latin America, etc. It's true that Latin American countries and people are far from uniform and shouldn't be treated as such generally, but on certain issues there is still widespread sensitivity to perceptions of US dominance/interference, and on those issues we have to consider the broader implications for our reputation throughout region. The Falklands dispute has exactly the kind of b.s. symbolism that's likely to trigger those sensitivities, so we're much better off just minding our own business and letting Britain and Argentina have their little argument.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:14 pm 
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As far as Latin America goes?

**** em, they're *not* our friends.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:44 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
The U.K.is a much bigger trading partner for us than any individual Latin American country, almost twice as much as Brazil, the only country in our top 10.


Indeed, but trade with Latin America as a whole is vastly larger than with Britain. US exports to Latin America, in fact, rival exports to the entire EU. Not to mention that we have significant non-trade interests in the region - drug interdiction, immigration issues, a huge number of American residents and citizens with personal and family connections in Latin America, etc. It's true that Latin American countries and people are far from uniform and shouldn't be treated as such generally, but on certain issues there is still widespread sensitivity to perceptions of US dominance/interference, and on those issues we have to consider the broader implications for our reputation throughout region. The Falklands dispute has exactly the kind of b.s. symbolism that's likely to trigger those sensitivities, so we're much better off just minding our own business and letting Britain and Argentina have their little argument.


That's a fair point of view, but I would point out that Britain is our most crucial ally AND a major trading partner, while much of Latin America is going to take any excuse it can find to be pissed off at us, especially those hopping on the Huge Chavez bandwagon. Anything we do other than unequivocally backing Argnetina is likely to be seen as negative by much of Central and South America, whereas we can remain much more uninvolved and maintain British goodwill by simply stating that the islanders themselves wish to remain British and as far as we're concerned that settles it.

In fact, that's the real heart of the issue. We have a country that made a land grab 30 years ago militarily, failed, and is now back trying to make the same land grab based on flimsy international maneuvering on such trivial justifications as geographic proximity and continental shelves. It reveals a major weakness of trying to set up international bodies like the U.N.; land grabs and other such behavior become much easier to conceal as justifiable under the smokescreen of "diplomacy".

More importantly, if this is an issue between the U.K. and Argentina, why is the rest of Latin America jumping on the Argentine bandwagon? These countries will readily cricticize us for arrogance if we involve ourselves in any way other than what's favorable to them, or even if we remain uninvolved, but they see no problem whatsoever in jumping on an ethnocentric bandwagon with the country they want to, even in opposition to the wishes of the actual inhabitants. One wonders where Chavez is in all this. I'm sure this will be another excuse to grandstand against the U.S. along with Britain.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:47 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
One wonders where Chavez is in all this. I'm sure this will be another excuse to grandstand against the U.S. along with Britain.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ntina.html

He already has.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Considering the british backed the US with Iraq at the Un, you can be sure that this will ruffle a few feathers if it got big...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:09 pm 
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The US hasn't been particularly popular in South America, maybe they don't want to push any buttons.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:16 pm 
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I doubt you'd be particularly popular in SA, even if you were their fairy god mother.

They need something evil to keep the people placate ... Tag you're it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:10 pm 
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England doesn't need backing. The Falklands belong to England. I dare any of those south american countries...or even all of them at once, to try to claim otherwise with any level of military backing.

England may not be America, but it could still take on South America in their entirety with one hand tied behind their back.

Decisively.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Talya wrote:
England doesn't need backing. The Falklands belong to England. I dare any of those south american countries...or even all of them at once, to try to claim otherwise with any level of military backing.

England may not be America, but it could still take on South America in their entirety with one hand tied behind their back.

Decisively.


Argentina has already as much as admitted that; they ruled out military action in the same breath as they started complaining.

England does, however, need backing in that we ought to be backing them against attempts to use legalisms as a weapon against them politically.

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