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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:40 am 
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It's just a caricature of what you'd expect from a "government is a nanny and solves all our problems" type of individual. I'm sure it has it's appeal, and many people will say "yeah, OTHER people are stupid and need to be told what to do. I dont, but they do." So as long as you agree with what the government is telling you to do, you might support this attitude. Personally, it annoys the **** out of me. Especially when it comes to something as politicized as greenhouse gas emissions.

http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapit ... to-energy/

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When it comes to greenhouse-gas emissions, Energy Secretary Steven Chu sees Americans as unruly teenagers and the Administration as the parent that will have to teach them a few lessons.

Speaking on the sidelines of a smart grid conference in Washington, Dr. Chu said he didn’t think average folks had the know-how or will to to change their behavior enough to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions.

“The American public…just like your teenage kids, aren’t acting in a way that they should act,” Dr. Chu said. “The American public has to really understand in their core how important this issue is.” (In that case, the Energy Department has a few renegade teens of its own.)

The administration aims to teach them—literally. The Environmental Protection Agency is focusing on real children. Partnering with the Parent Teacher Organization, the agency earlier this month launched a cross-country tour of 6,000 schools to teach students about climate change and energy efficiency.

“We’re showing people across the country how energy efficiency can be part of what they do every day,” said EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson. “Confronting climate change, saving money on our utility bills, and reducing our use of heavily-polluting energy can be as easy as making a few small changes.”

Still, Secretary Chu said he didn’t think that the public would throw the same political temper tantrum over climate legislation has has happened with the healthcare debate.

Asked if he expected a town-hall style pushback, Dr. Chu said he was optimistic the public would buy the administration’s arguments that energy efficiency and caps on greenhouse-gas emissions will spark an economic rebound.

“I don’t think so…maybe I’m optimistic, but there’s very little debate” that a new green energy economy will bring economic prosperity, Mr. Chu told reporters.

Don’t look now, but there’s actually quite a lot of debate as to the economic merits of the new green-energy economy. Whether that will spell a healthcare-style revolt against the energy and climate bill stewing in the Senate is another question.

An update: Energy Department spokesman Dan Leistikow added: “Secretary Chu was not comparing the public to teenagers. He was saying that we need to educate teenagers about ways to save energy. He also recognized the need to educate the broader public about how important clean energy industries are to our competitive position in the global economy. He believes public officials do have an obligation to make their case to the American people on major legislation, and that’s what he’s doing.”

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:45 am 
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When it comes to greenhouse-gas emissions, Energy Secretary Steven Chu sees Americans as unruly teenagers and the Administration as the parent that will have to teach them a few lessons.


This, unfortunately, is the attitude I see from government in general, and from people who see government as a legitimate solution to their perceived problems.

**** them. Government is not our parents, they have no moral authority; they are our servants, not our masters. Those who would frame themselves as somehow above us can go to **** hell, preferably by way of firing squad or guillotine.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:32 am 
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I wonder what he would say when these teenagers rebel against authority and start handing out the spankings?

Hey Taly if you move down here I'll give you a free rifle for the firing squad. We need more people with that attitude.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:46 am 
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I think people should pay more attention to the language and behavior of our policy makers and government officials. There is a marked propensity to "re-frame" statements when they spark public ire or raise the hackles of constituents. I honestly cannot think of a day that's gone by without a "Well, what I really meant ..." statement from the White House or the Executive.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Khross do you feel this type of language is deliberate in order to get a point across or deliberate to get attention?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:16 pm 
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People like affirmation that they are smarter than everyone else. This type of rhetoric plays well to a certain audience. The dopey teenager reference would go over well to a group who feels global warming is a huge deal and we need to do something about it ASAP. In that scenario, others are the dopey teens and they are the sophisticated adults who 'get it'.

So he didnt say anything wrong to that audience, but to the wider population this is a view inside that they would typically keep to themselves.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:24 pm 
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Hokanu wrote:
Khross do you feel this type of language is deliberate in order to get a point across or deliberate to get attention?
I'm not sure it's quite so overt or purposeful as your question implies; rather, I think the Administration has a political agenda and an internal dialect that it uses carelessly when addressing the public.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Sadly, however, my perception is that he's more right than wrong.

The vast majority of the population aren't even remotely focused on issues like green house gases or environmental issues. They are so myopic that it's only some organization with a bigger picture view and some authority behind it that will affect change.

The irony of the whole situation is that if the people just actually behaved more responsibly, there would be less of a Nanny State.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Aizle:

Does your house have asphalt shingles? How much of your roof surface is blocked by trees? How many square feet of exposed concrete or asphalt is on your property? Don't you own a late model Ford Mustang, 2 motorcycles, and a second car? How many lights in your house are compact fluorescents with Energy Star approval (particularly 3rd or later generation, since 1st generation CFl technology is actually inferior to incandescent from a consumption standpoint)?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:37 pm 
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That's because a large part of the population, contrary to the "Everyone is an idiotic drone/sheep" oversiplification so many people (such as the Energy Secretary) like to throw at the public realize that the greenhouse gas/global warming/etc. issues are much more controversial than they are being led to believe. Anyone who can remember the "The oceans will be dead by 1984!" panic is taking this with a grain of salt.

If it was simply a matter of "Hey, save a little energy because you'll save some money" that would be a lot less controversial. I don't have a problem with the government pointing out things like unplugging some unneeded appliances or putting the computer on standby instead of letting it run when you're not using it. That's just making people aware of some facts they might not have considered. Promoting a political agenda to children is a totally different matter.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Diamondeye:

I'm more amused that people are focusing on a supposed "global crisis" when documented local changes are eminently reversible.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Sadly, however, my perception is that he's more right than wrong.

The vast majority of the population aren't even remotely focused on issues like green house gases or environmental issues. They are so myopic that it's only some organization with a bigger picture view and some authority behind it that will affect change.

The irony of the whole situation is that if the people just actually behaved more responsibly, there would be less of a Nanny State.



Who gets to define "responsible?" Who gets to dictate priorities and concerns for people?

I don't give a **** about green house gases because nobody has convinced me it's actually an issue--it just appears to be a bunch of alarmist screaming. I do care about pollution in general, and fuel efficiency and especially saving money. It's not irresponsible for me to idle my car beyond the money it costs me.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Talya wrote:
It's not irresponsible for me to idle my car beyond the money it costs me.


Speaking of which...

/idles truck

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Talya wrote:
It's not irresponsible for me to idle my car beyond the money it costs me.


Speaking of which...

/idles truck


it's your wallet. :p

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Müs wrote:
Talya wrote:
It's not irresponsible for me to idle my car beyond the money it costs me.


Speaking of which...

/idles truck


it's your wallet. :p


Exactly. And, I'm helping you live in a warmer, more hospitable climate :)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:05 pm 
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hehe when Moose idles his truck it takes 15 gallons of fuel per 10 minutes.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Talya wrote:
Müs wrote:
Speaking of which...

/idles truck


it's your wallet. :p


Exactly. And, I'm helping you live in a warmer, more hospitable climate :)


If only. If only...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Diamondeye:

I'm more amused that people are focusing on a supposed "global crisis" when documented local changes are eminently reversible.


REally? I think the most amusing thing is that, rather than sell saving energy on the justification of "it saves you money" which almost anyone can get behind, they go for this convoluted campaign to teach kids about it. Like the kids are going to go home and demand the plasma TV be dispensed with.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Sadly, however, my perception is that he's more right than wrong.

The vast majority of the population aren't even remotely focused on issues like green house gases or environmental issues. They are so myopic that it's only some organization with a bigger picture view and some authority behind it that will affect change.

The irony of the whole situation is that if the people just actually behaved more responsibly, there would be less of a Nanny State.



Who gets to define "responsible?" Who gets to dictate priorities and concerns for people?


Society does, as it always has. In the US, it's an odd combination of society along with elected leaders who are supposed to be smarter than we are.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
That's because a large part of the population, contrary to the "Everyone is an idiotic drone/sheep" oversiplification so many people (such as the Energy Secretary) like to throw at the public realize that the greenhouse gas/global warming/etc. issues are much more controversial than they are being led to believe. Anyone who can remember the "The oceans will be dead by 1984!" panic is taking this with a grain of salt.

If it was simply a matter of "Hey, save a little energy because you'll save some money" that would be a lot less controversial. I don't have a problem with the government pointing out things like unplugging some unneeded appliances or putting the computer on standby instead of letting it run when you're not using it. That's just making people aware of some facts they might not have considered. Promoting a political agenda to children is a totally different matter.


I guess I don't really see the harm in what they are advocating. Resource management has never been a human strongpoint, and if concerns about global warming get kids into good concervation habits, I probably won't lose any sleep over it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
I guess I don't really see the harm in what they are advocating. Resource management has never been a human strongpoint, and if concerns about global warming get kids into good concervation habits, I probably won't lose any sleep over it.


I don't know how resource management could be "not a human strongpoint" since we have no other species to be strong or weak in relation to; only some idealized hypotheticals.

I also don't see any good in feeding impressionable children a hypothesis that is the subject of considerable controversy simply because it will impress some ostensibly good habits.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
REally? I think the most amusing thing is that, rather than sell saving energy on the justification of "it saves you money" which almost anyone can get behind

Because that approach would be startlingly close to teaching fiscal responsibility. If political agendas too that approach, it might cause people to start applying those lessons to the spending habits of politicians, evaluating the efficiency of government agencies, etc. Surely you can't think that is a good idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Surely you can't think that is a good idea.


You bring great sarcasm here, Sensebearer.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Aizle wrote:
I guess I don't really see the harm in what they are advocating. Resource management has never been a human strongpoint, and if concerns about global warming get kids into good concervation habits, I probably won't lose any sleep over it.


I don't know how resource management could be "not a human strongpoint" since we have no other species to be strong or weak in relation to; only some idealized hypotheticals.

I also don't see any good in feeding impressionable children a hypothesis that is the subject of considerable controversy simply because it will impress some ostensibly good habits.


From my perspective we have a very small number of humans who are very good at it, who set the bar, and the rest of society can compare themselves to it. Overall, I wouldn't say we're too good at it, largely because it's not a focal point in everyone's day to day activities. (it should be noted, mine included often)

Well, as one who finds global warming less controvercial than many on these forums, that is probably why we don't see eye to eye on this one.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Ladas wrote:
Surely you can't think that is a good idea.


You bring great sarcasm here, Sensebearer.


Solomon Grundy want Sense too!

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