The Glade 4.0

I am.

Amidst kidnappings, drug-cartel violence (and how it seems that the Mexican government is on their payroll), and the continued influx of illegal immigrants (course, with all of the aforementioned going on, who could blame them?), I think an eyebrow of concern should at least be raised in their general direction.

Look at violent, militaristic drug gangs like the Los Zetas, who can easily slip unquestioned between Texas and Mexico. If organizations like these get a major foothold in the US, Mexico's worst problems now become ours.

The US really needs to work with the Mexican government to help cut out these problems before they become all-consuming. Not saying the US is perfect and without its own problems, but do we really need them compounded by having our country become the dumping grounds for our southern neighbor's trash?

I think you're overreacting.

Possibly.

But, the Mexican drug cartels already have sleeper cells in several countries (including the US). With as many weapons as they can carry easily at their disposal from the homeland, that spells bad news for folks anywhere in the world.

Also, look at how much actual citizens pay for illegal immigrants that we are "harboring." I have to struggle to make ends meet as is.

I've had little desire to go to Mexico before, and situations like these certainly are not helping to change that.

I don't think this is an issue we should turn a blind eye to.

The US military doesn't think so. Remember a thread we had about a year ago when the US raised the Mexican threat level? The idea is that the Mexican government, which was already rotten to the core with corruption, is falling apart, and the country is falling into a loose state of anarchy, with what is left of a functional central government being led or manipulated by drug cartels. In this sort of state, drug wars and refugees are spilling over the border at an alarming rate.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

^
This

Consider that the United States has indicate their willingness to help, anytime, but will not wholescale enter the country without a firm invitation.

No one in the Mexican government believes they would last the day if they issued that invitation, or wouldn't want to lose the income from bribes that keeps them from wanting the US to enter.

So we sit back, watch and nail who we can when we can, on this side of the line. Our intelligence on trafficking sucks, sucks and sucks some more. Its a war we can't win if we start.

The cartels are smart enough not to pull a 9/11 to show how powerful they are. They don't have to, they make their fortunes off our weak already and their political arms keep the US doling benefits out to the illegals that make it here.

So, to those of you who use, stop buying the Mexican weed, grow your own.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Legalize.

We cause these problems ourselves by creating federal law which fosters massive black markets, and black markets invite violence because they are forced out of the light and protection of law. As bad as big tobacco and alcohol might be, they don't kill diplomats as a matter of business protocol.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Phoenix was (not sure if it's still the case) the number 2 kidnapping city in the world a while ago. The vast majority of these are all drug-related. From what I understand, a lot of the people kidnapped were already from Mexico anyway, but still. It's a problem. It's a problem the open borders crowds don't want becoming mainstream because then we'd have to secure the border.

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The Dude abides.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

No no no.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Being a bit gentle after what I proposed, aren't we?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

No no, enlightened self interest. I live in the southwest, and would prefer not to breathe more radioactive bits of godforsaken desert than I already have :p

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Holy shitsnacks!

That, my friend, is why we invented fusion and airburst fuzing.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

True, but ****, as they say, still does happen.

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Holy shitsnacks!

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/ ... _home.html

I'm concerned.

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I'm serious. The obvious solution to this problem, and a beginning of solutions to alot of other problems is to legalize.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Or a lazer attached to motion control and a long wall... much cooler than legalizing stuff...

Less cost-effective, less respectful of rights.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

It would be nice if member of the unorganized militia decided to fire some anti-material rounds in the direction of the heli. Four bucks for us, a few hundred thousand in cost for them, AP INC rounds aren't hard to find.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

That would be first degree murder Elmarnieh.

I'm not saying the Heli has any right to be there, but we, as citizens of the United States, do not have the right to shoot illegal immigrants just because we're upset with them for being there.

Have our government tell their government to back off. If our government is unwilling to do that (why?) I'd still want to see something more provocative than a fly-over before we shoot down their government's property, killed members of their military, and possibly start a war.

Just because a man can, doesn't mean he should.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

We have a right and duty to fire upon another nation's military units acting without authorization within our border.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

How would a member of an unorganized militia know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were not authorized to be there?

An assumption like that which results in fatalities of foreign nationals doesn't get dismissed with an 'oops, they were authorized? My bad, sorry."

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

They likely wouldn't. Of course we don't need shadow of doubt, we need reasonable. Would you be against the Sheriff firing?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I would prefer the military be called and the situation reported if all they are doing is hovering. If they attack or visibly threaten (other than by their being there) anything a response is perfectly reasonable.

The Sheriff should work through his chain of command, let them know what is going on, and ask for advice, back-up, and moving it on up to the military chain of command. Initiate an attack without provocation, again, other than their being there, no. They are hovering over a lake near some homes lakeside. Anything they do after that other than take pictures or leave is going to be seen as provocation. Heck, if they threw their lunch trash into the lake Texans would probably fire on them for poisoning their drinking water.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

That hasn't happened in any of the frequent Mexican military incursions in the past Micheal, even when they surrounded and attempted to deprive an America citizen of their property.

The Sheriff is the ultimate legal authority in his territory Micheal, he can kick any Federal Agency out of it. He is literally the defender of the people against all other levels of government - if he or she does their job correctly.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Mostly, I think you're too quick on the trigger Elmarnieh, it appears to me that you want to escalate immediately to a shooting war when diplomacy could prevail without loss of life.

My question is why isn't our military taking a harder look at this and responding? Could it be there has been some trade off, they can pursue their bad-guys and locate them for our law enforcement to turn over to their law enforcement, and we can pursue our bad guys for apprehension by their law enforcement and delivery to our law enforcement. Since this is illegal in both countries, our military and theirs doesn't talk about it, but it looks pretty strange to citizens on both sides of the line. That is my theory, ungrounded with knowledge of any facts. It just fits the non response when they violate our air space or we violate theirs, which we hear about occasionally in California.

What is more logical, Mexican military hunting their hombres and getting some quid pro quo assistance, or the Mexican military looking to start a shooting war by threatening our citizens?

Ease back, relax, find out more facts. We don't know enough about the situation to make more than a quick draw decision. Those rarely end well.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones