The Glade 4.0

I don't even know what to say, anymore. I really know now that there's no way to fix this country except through the brutal reality of self-destruction. Revolution is as impossible and absurd an idea as reform from within. Make no mistake about that. This country will implode, and there is nothing you, I, or anyone else can do about it.

And no, it isn't "just" the health care act.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Thats a really good way of wording it, Ladas.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I really don't have the option for referrals: small market and all that. I could move elsewhere, but no new physician is going to replace what is lost by either. Comfort, knowledge, and all the intangibles are irreplaceable.

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You know how you guys used to roll your eyes at Monty whenever he'd go on about how Bush was turning our country into a fascist dictatorship, how freedom and democracy and the rule of law meant nothing anymore in these United States of Rush Limbaugh (TM), and how it was plausible to worry that Bush might declare martial law and cancel the elections if he had the chance?

The sky really isn't going to fall here. I get that this is a big policy change and you don't like it, but that's all it is.

I also don't get this argument. The Dems campaigned, very vocally, on health care reform along the lines of what they enacted. Sure, the polls were slightly negative by the time the bill actually passed, but it's not like this was some bait and switch scam. The Dems said, "Elect us, and we'll give you health care reform." The people elected them, and they delivered on their promise. That's how the system is supposed to work. Heck, it's actually a great example of why elections do still matter, and why the two parties really aren't the same.

But the sky really is going to fall. The funny thing is Stathol is right. It's not only Obama who's going to cause it. It's every President at least since FDR who's made this possible by expanding the government and leaving debt for the next generation. Eventually, we won't be able to export debt, which is imminent, and we'll collapse. No one's going to bail us out like Iceland and Greece were because we're far too large and hated by the rest of the world anyway. Healthcare might not be the last straw, but we're getting close. It won't mean the end of the US, but it'll cause us to lose superpower status and change our way of life.

When it's the Dems doing what they believe is right, it's ignoring the will of the people.
When it's the Reps doing what they believe is right, it's being uncompromising on their values.

The projections I've seen have the deficit falling because of this healthcare bill, not rising.

And I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn too. Our debt is going to rise, rather rapidly. And our taxes as well. They used accounting slight of hand to make it look like we're going to make money off this.

RangerDave:

Except, they didn't give us healthcare reform. What part of increased costs, increased taxes, and decreased access delivers on that promise? There were a million and one things that COULD and possibly SHOULD have been done; none of them are in the legislation that is going to the President's desk, since ... lo and behold ... the House reconciliation measure is invalid and reconciliation isn't an option for this bill.

I read the bill Reid put on his personal website. I read every page. This isn't a major policy change; it's a major policy ****.

As for traitorous ****? The bill was polling in the 70-75% against range. All those support polls were for ghost provisions that may or (in actuality were not) may not have been in the bill polled individually. The American people stood up, said no, protested, campaigned against, and were told: **** YOU, we're doing it anyway.

This goes far beyond Bush's failed policies.

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Holy shitsnacks!

If indeed the results are as Khross and Ienan predict, then all you conservatives should be happy. The bill will cause a collapse that will wake folks up from their apathy and allow for the conservatives to gain control of the government and save us from our liberal stupidity.

I'm not holding my breath tho.

Now, if only Obama could make the doctors run on time, everybody would be happy.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Aizle:

Did you read the bill? Or, are you just taking the media talking heads at their word this is a beautiful, historic thing destined to save America from George W. Bush?

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Neither.

I support the bill because I believe that as a civilized country that healthcare should be a right. This bill is a large step in that direction.

Do I think the bill is perfect? Absolutely not.
Do I think that healthcare will continue to need reform and work. Absolutely.
Do I think this has anything to do with GWB? Absolutely not.

That's your view of it, but there are a lot of smart people who disagree. This isn't the version of reform I would have chosen either (I prefer some mix of state-to-state portability and government-provided high-risk pools and catastrophic coverage), but I don't believe that the thousands of policymakers and experts on the subject who support this legislation are either idiots or scoundrels. Nor do I believe that of the thousands of experts who oppose it. So, I discard the extreme analyses on both sides and conclude that the results of this package can't be precisely predicted, but that they'll likely be some mix of pros and cons that can be debated and tweaked in the years to come.



Can you source those numbers? I haven't seen anything remotely like that. RCP average is 49.3 against to 40.1 in favor.

I believe that's exactly what lawmakers want, the collapse of the current system. It makes it easier to replace the current system with European-style socialism then. Ideally, they wanted the perfect healthcare bill with a public option. Because they couldn't do that, they did the next best thing, pass a bill that will collapse the healthcare system and hopefully the entire system and then institute a form of socialism as Republicans fail because they don't have the ability to clean up the mess fast enough.

Aizle:

If you truly believe healthcare is a right, then you backed the wrong horse in this race. This bill isn't a step in the right direction for your opinion. It will decrease access and care for everyone who couldn't already pay out of pocket.

RangerDave:

I read the bill. I know the economics. And those "experts" you think can't possibly be idiots and scoundrels are precisely that: idiots and scoundrels. Your appeal to authority and popularity notwithstanding, the President himself absolutely rejected any portability and tort-reform measures. Denied things that would have had immediate short term impact and long term benefit in the way of changing how we handle risk pooling; and he rejected the notion that Medicare reform beyond slashing payments to already "too rich" doctors would do anything.

The major problems with the health care industry in America was ALREADY government made; what on earth makes you think MORE Government is the solution to a problem demonstrably caused by government interference and price fixing in the first place?

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Wait...what? Is he living in the same world as the rest of us?

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Holy shitsnacks!

It doesn't matter how "civilized" a country becomes, because it cannot change the fact that access to health care requires action (as opposed to inaction) on behalf of a third party. How can something which takes the resources of another be considered a "right"?

Receipt of health care is a right, obviously The Constitution tells us this, but that's not the same thing. It just so happens that large medical practices have stopped negotiating with individuals and some only deal with contracts negotiated by large insurance carriers. Something I see as both in part a risk and sound strategy.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

I am taking a wait and see approach. Like any other law it isn't the letter that is written but rather the interpretation and execution that truly shape its impact and in so many cases the end result is a far cry from the originating regulation.

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My wife voted for Obama, I voted against him. My only reason was the experience of the candidates in serving at the federal level. I think the man would make a great diplomat. He's my president and I support him. I think he is doing exactly what he said he would do... performing exactly how those who bothered to educate themselves about him and elected him expected him to perform ... and he's been doing so to the best of his abilities. I'm not inclined to vote for him in 2012.

I wasn't surprised when this vote passed, and expected it for the last year. As someone sorta near retirement, I expect this bill will benefit my wife and I when we do retire by providing less expensive (but less comprehensive) health care. My sole argument against the bill was always a quiet "I hate doing this to my kids", but I haven't been outspoken about it.

My wife went out the door this morning calling for impeachment.

I'd argue that the people are awake.

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In time, this too shall pass.

**** awesome. I hope the supporters of this bill are the first to suffer from these new ways to **** us.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

They won't. There's language in there I'm sure that exempts them from having to have the same health care options as the plebes.

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Holy shitsnacks!

I mean the plebes who supported it. They wanted it so badly that they are willing to support these douchebags in the house and senate.... I hope they are the first ones to turn around and complain about the quality of care.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut