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Uncle Fester
 Post subject: Fun with definitions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:34 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ition-tax/

George S, and Obama sparing over the definition of taxes

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President Obama and ABC News' George Stephanopoulos got in a testy sparring match Sunday over whether the president's health care plan includes a tax increase, leading the host to look up the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of taxes.

In the interview airing Sunday, Stephanopoulos pressed the president on his plan to require people to purchase health insurance.

"Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don't. How is that not a tax?" the host asked.

Obama responded: " No, but -- but, George, you -- you can't just make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase."

Stephanopoulos then offered the dictionary definition.

"I don't think I'm making it up. Merriam-Webster's dictionary: 'Tax, a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes,'" he said.

Visibly taken aback, Obama rejected the notion it was a tax increase and said pulling the dictionary out was a sign the host was "stretching" a little.

"No. That -- that's not true, George. The -- for us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase," Obama said.

Click here to see the exchange with Obama.


Apparently using the dictionary to define the word is stretching it...

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Rafael
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:36 pm 
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Interesting. I also watched the interview. Not a lot of said, by either, it seems.

I reject the notion of using auto insurance as a way to justify the health insurance mandate as not being a tax. It's just that culpability for auto accidents is a joke, too.

If someone chooses not to have auto insurance, it should be his/her perogative to do so. If he/she causes property or medical damages, he or should should be mandated to pay. If he/she doesn't, why not garnish his/her wages and such?

For health insurance, the idea that the mandate (through the penalty for not purchasing it if it's "affordable") has to exist to make the costs of health-care fair because ER is required to treat patients, regardless. That's fixing a problem with a problem.

Would anyone, even proponents of Obama's health insurance reform plan, reject the idea of a policy that if (hypothetically) there was no penalty for opting out of insurance entirely but it was offered to you and you chose not to participate, that ER should be able to refuse you care?

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Kaffis Mark V
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:08 pm 
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I would support your policy, Rafael.

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Raell
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:15 pm 
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That is all well and good but you have the problem of implied consent. If you are in an accident they are not going to roll your body to check for medical insurance. If you are out cold while rolling into the ER they are going to start treating you before the paperwork is even started.

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Screeling
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:03 am 
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I'm sure Khross will be pissed that Stephanopoulos didn't use the Oxford English dictionary.

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shuyung
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:04 am 
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Rafael wrote:
If someone chooses not to have auto insurance, it should be his/her perogative to do so. If he/she causes property or medical damages, he or should should be mandated to pay. If he/she doesn't, why not garnish his/her wages and such?

This is presupposing that the person without auto insurance possesses the sufficient assets or income to cover the costs. In Missouri, you can auto-insure. It requires a certain amount deposited to escrow and documentation submitted to the state. I do not know what other states this is true for, but I wouldn't be surprised if most had something similar. I would be willing to allow the regulations to be modified such that an uninsured driver without the ability to remunerate becomes the indentured servant of anyone he harms and is at fault. I hate doing yardwork.

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Khross
 Post subject: Re: Fun with definitions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:04 am 
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Actually, I kind of like the idea that he pulled out a dictionary on the President.

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Kaffis Mark V
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:44 am 
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I can vouch for Ohio, shuyung.

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DFK!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:59 am 
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He gets a C+ for journalistic effort.

He let the president off easy by letting him cop-out at the end, and failed to point out the huge loophole in the entire logic base for the individual mandate:

"If you don't want to get insurance, other people shouldn't have to bear your burden. Therefore, you should be required to get insurance. If you can't afford it, other people should subsidize or pay for your burden..."

Uh.....

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Uncle Fester
 Post subject: Re: Fun with definitions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:13 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ma-denial/

hehe its under excise tax, guess Obama is wrong it is a tax, according to the bills author.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:37 pm 
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So he is lying. Wow - who would have guessed it?

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DFK!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
So he is lying. Wow - who would have guessed it?


Na. I think he actually believes what he's saying.

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Elmarnieh
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:48 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
So he is lying. Wow - who would have guessed it?


Na. I think he actually believes what he's saying.


So he believes that he gets to define what a word means in opposition to the dictionary and the rest of the English-speaking world?

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Hannibal
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Well yeah, because it feeeeeelllllls right.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:08 pm 
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It isn't a tax because he really really REALLY doesn't want it to be one.

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Hannibal
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:10 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
It isn't a tax because he really really REALLY doesn't want it to be one.


Let's be honest, it's a tax, he knows it's a tax, Congress knows it's a tax, but they are going to continue to deny deny deny until after the 2010 election. Then it will be blame Bush, cause we had to do it, and bend us over the couch some more.

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Kaffis Mark V
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
So he believes that he gets to define what a word means in opposition to the dictionary and the rest of the English-speaking world?

He wouldn't be the only liberal I've seen believe this. In fact, Limbaugh's been maintaining (for at least a decade) that liberals have been appropriating the "evolution" of the language for quite a while now.

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Elmarnieh
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
So he believes that he gets to define what a word means in opposition to the dictionary and the rest of the English-speaking world?

He wouldn't be the only liberal I've seen believe this. In fact, Limbaugh's been maintaining (for at least a decade) that liberals have been appropriating the "evolution" of the language for quite a while now.


Well they have. Look at the word "liberal".

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DFK!
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:38 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
So he believes that he gets to define what a word means in opposition to the dictionary and the rest of the English-speaking world?

He wouldn't be the only liberal I've seen believe this. In fact, Limbaugh's been maintaining (for at least a decade) that liberals have been appropriating the "evolution" of the language for quite a while now.



Indeed.

That's one of the biggest things I got from Levin's book, actually. In order to win, we have to take the language back.

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Rynar
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:58 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
So he believes that he gets to define what a word means in opposition to the dictionary and the rest of the English-speaking world?

He wouldn't be the only liberal I've seen believe this. In fact, Limbaugh's been maintaining (for at least a decade) that liberals have been appropriating the "evolution" of the language for quite a while now.



Indeed.

That's one of the biggest things I got from Levin's book, actually. In order to win, we have to take the language back.


The problem here is, you have to take back the schools in order to take back the language. To take back the schools, you have to throw out the unions, who are already entrenched by law and precedent.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Homeschooling and private tutoring. I've been toying with the idea for a year and a half of setting up an agency that provides supplies to people who will tutor neighborhood children in history and civics in various age groups.

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Hannibal
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Can I man the water cannon when you get protested?

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Elmarnieh
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The cannon sure...water?

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Diamondeye
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:20 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Homeschooling and private tutoring. I've been toying with the idea for a year and a half of setting up an agency that provides supplies to people who will tutor neighborhood children in history and civics in various age groups.


Why limit it to that? Math and English education are sucking almost as bad.

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Raell
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:36 am 
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It is hard to program a child with just simple math and english. Elmo wants more puppets to play with.

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