The Glade 4.0

Hold out for some stimulus bucks.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Haven't we been saying all along that the latter is what they intend?

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The Dude abides.

As noted before, I am closing down. The two women who have worked for me 10 and 15 years respectively are now looking for a new job. They are both 60 so none of us have much hope. And they both cried a little with me and thanked me 'for holding on so long'.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

Sorry to hear that, SG.

In other disheartening news, in order to raise funds to cover the new unfunded mandates contained in the healthcare bill in Rhode Island, a state already facing massive budgets deficits and unemployment figures, our state legislature in now moving to remove the tax-exempt status of non-profit organizations such as hospitals, colleges, churches, and soup kitchens. I **** you not. Great job Obamacorp. Great **** job.

/goldclap

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Holy crap. Dude, why are you even still living there?

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The Dude abides.

Its so bad in Cali that even Democrats are stating that the penion fund of public union's is destroying the state.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

My step daughter. Her father, and half brother and sister still live here, and I don't want to seperate her from them. Kelley and I have plans to move to AZ or Texas once she reaches college age.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

What about Pa? *adorabaliciously blinks*

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I don't think one state could handle our combined awesomeness.

Rymo Twins Unite!

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Perhaps not. *sadface*

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I saw a report today that a Dr. has told her patients that she will no longer accept insurance, her patients are to pay in cash then get reimbursed by their insurance, because of the new HC law. Maybe you could consider something like that? I understand if not, but I wanted to put it out there to you. The report was on Fox, but I didn't get all the details.

Speaking from an outside observer...

If I had a penny for every time I hear someone say "I'm sick but not going to the doc cause I can handle it, plus it's too expensive/costs money/there's meds and it's cheaper" argument from someone in the US.

It seems to me that people already avoid going to the docs as a rule of thumb. Mostly due to the fact that most Us people aint very good at saving. To pay cash and then reimburse is just going to turn more people off going to see the docs for minor ailments which require prescription... Bronchitis I'm looking at you.

You guys already have one of the more lax medicine culture in the developped country. (OTC psudo anyone?) and if this trend persists, I can forsee even more deregulation in order for the general public to self diagnose and treat, thus increasing the risk for substance abuses >.<

Edit. oh and the above scares me cause you're also the country with the most warning labels and law suits =P

Bingo. See, you've got all the facts straight, it's just your reluctance/unwillingness to believe, or (unconsciously?) willful disbelief in the depravity and sinisterity (is that a word? Is now!) of the liberal legislators we've put in power that's holding you back from the truth, now.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

**** A... then my companies so-so dental plan is only a few thousand from being a cadillac plan...

Now I really hope all of the politicians who supported this bill and their families die in pestilence.

Along with their dogs and cats and goldfish, any birds they have.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

No, the sad thing is they're not betraying the people who elected them. You need to talk to more liberals. If you tell them, "this bill is designed to destroy the private insurance industry" they will tell you, "well, it's about damn time, why are you *****?"

$500M in a $14b company.

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I dunno, I consider the government taking control of my life sinister and depraved no matter how many liberals think it's a good idea.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

You've got the order backwards, Xeq. The original Senate bill had the Cadillac tax kicking in at $8500 for individuals, and the House reconciliation package raised that to $10,200. It's just in the news now because Senate Republicans used that change as part of their procedural maneuver to force a second vote in the House.

On the substantive point, this isn't a stealth tax on corporations or intended to drive the insurance industry out of business. Rather, it's intended to shift the market away from employer-based insurance to privately-purchased insurance by gradually reducing the tax benefit employer-based plans currently get. It just does it gradually by starting with the highest cost plans and, over time, applying to more and more plans as inflation causes regular plans to cross the threshold.

That's actually a policy goal that both liberals and conservatives agree on. Hell, in 2008, McCain campaigned on completely eliminating the tax-free status of all employer-based insurance immediately! Obama argued that such a rapid shift would be too much of a shock, and hence his reform plan does it gradually. At the end of the day, though, this is just closing a tax loophole that everyone agrees distorts the insurance market and harms the economy.

But doing so gradually puts nobody in an advantageous position. Instead, it incentivizes employers to offer crappier plans, while still maintaining them as part of the compensation package (and thus passing no additional monetary leverage over to the consumer to fund a private plan). In addition, the private market doesn't get the kick-start and attention that sending everybody out at once would offer.

In addition, if that's the goal, why are union plans exempted? The exemption makes it look like the goal is to create a two-tiered system, where if you're government or unionized, you get employer-subsidized benefits, and if you're not, you're a second class citizen who's on their own. Isn't that the argument about why companies who prevent their employees from working full-time hours are evil?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I can't believe there's a discussion about motive and objectives. Read the party plank for the last 60 years.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Aye, those are legit arguments against a gradual phase-in, but I'm an incrementalist by nature, so I tend to prefer gradual changes to instant ones. I think eliminating the tax preferences for employer-based plans is a good thing, but I like the idea of delaying it a few years (it doesn't kick in until 2018) and phasing it in gradually, since I think that allows the market time to plan ahead and adjust.



Yeah, that was pure interest group politics. It's gone now, though. The reconciliation package removed the union exemption.

I'm not against reasonable forewarning; sudden legislative changes can surely **** with the market response and so it's prudent to promote stability. That doesn't mean incremental, though, and 2018 is WAY too far out; might as well not make changes at all.

I'd prefer a universal removal of the exempt status for all plans, taking effect in, say, 3-5 years. That's far enough out to not offer shocks or unplanned hurdles for organizations with a biannual budget, but it's immediate enough that people WILL start planning for it, and it's not going to go unnoticed or forgotten for almost a decade before popping back into the public eye.

I can even see, if you're worried that sudden removal is too.. sudden, saying that half the cost of a plan retains its tax exempt status for a year or two, with no thresholds to segregate or discriminate between plans.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the goal is to eliminate employer-provided insurance, it is a stealth tax on corporations. If group plans get eliminated, every company in the US will have to pay a $2,000 annual tax per employee forever.