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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:33 am 
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http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/transportation-department-embraces-bikes-and-business-groups-cry-foul/
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Transportation Department Embraces Bikes, and Business Groups Cry Foul

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has announced a “major policy revision” that aims to give bicycling and walking the same policy and economic consideration as driving.

“Today I want to announce a sea change,” he wrote on his blog last week. “This is the end of favoring motorized transportation at the expense of nonmotorized.”

The new policy, which was introduced a few days after Mr. LaHood gave a well-received speech from atop a table at the National Bike Summit, is said to reflect the Transportation Department’s support for the development of fully integrated transportation networks.

It calls on state and local governments to go beyond minimum planning and maintenance requirements to provide convenient and safe amenities for bikers and walkers. “Walking and biking should not be an afterthought in roadway design,” the policy states.

Transportation agencies are urged to take action on a number of fronts, including the creation of pathways for bike riders and pedestrians on bridges, and providing children with safe biking and walking routes to schools.

They are also encouraged to find ways to make such improvements in concert with road maintenance projects and to protect sidewalks and bike lanes in the same manner as roads (by clearing them of snow, for example).

Mr. LaHood also indicated the department is discouraging “transportation investments that negatively affect cyclists and pedestrians.”

Not surprisingly, the news had bike enthusiasts excited.

“It is simply the strongest statement of support for prioritizing bicycling and walking ever to come from a sitting secretary of transportation,” said Darren Flusche, policy analyst for the League of American Bicyclists.

Nonetheless, some business groups have expressed concern that giving walking and biking the same policy considerations as other transportation modes, as Mr. LaHood recommended, would impede progress on other fronts.


“Treating bicycles and other nonmotorized transportation as equal to motorized transportation would cause an economic catastrophe,” warned Carter Wood, a senior adviser at the National Association of Manufacturers. “If put it into effect, the policy would more than undermine any effort the Obama Administration has made toward jobs. You can’t have jobs without the efficient movement of freight.”

At a House appropriations committee hearing last week, Congressman Steven LaTourette, Republican of Ohio, brought up the new policy and asked a Transportation Department official to clarify what Mr. LaHood means by “equal treatment.”

“If we’re going to spend $1 million on a road, we’re not going to have half of it go to a bike lane and half of it go to cars?” he asked, according to a transcript of the hearing.

“My interpretation of that would be equal in the eyes of policymakers as what is the expenditure you make, what is the benefit you get,” responded Roy Kienitz, D.O.T.’s under secretary for policy. “And if the freight project offers the best bang, great, but if the bike project offers a good bang, great for them.”

“I don’t even understand how you get a bang for the buck out of a bicycle project,” Mr. LaTourette subsequently commented. “I mean, what job is going to be created by having a bike lane?”

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:46 am 
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New freight method: bike transport. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:53 am 
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This is the guy that told Toyota owners to stop driving their cars - is his position a surprise?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:00 am 
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I'm all in favor of people saving a little money and getting some exercise... but we do not need the Moron Secretary of Transportation telling local governments how to allocate resources towards roads vs bike paths and sidewalks. This is like something I'd expect to hear from some sci-fi novel liberal government.

And what the hell is a "fully integrated" transportation network? Ooo, look at me! I can apply terms for computer networks to other things! Doesn't it sound like a better idea now that it has a cool term?

But wait, what's this?

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“Treating bicycles and other nonmotorized transportation as equal to motorized transportation would cause an economic catastrophe,” warned Carter Wood, a senior adviser at the National Association of Manufacturers. “If put it into effect, the policy would more than undermine any effort the Obama Administration has made toward jobs. You can’t have jobs without the efficient movement of freight.”


At least someonehas a form grasp on the obvious.

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“I don’t even understand how you get a bang for the buck out of a bicycle project,” Mr. LaTourette subsequently commented. “I mean, what job is going to be created by having a bike lane?”

DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:56 am 
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Serienya wrote:
New freight method: bike transport. ;)

This was my thought. Think of how many more jobs will be created via bike transport! You'll need hundreds of bicyclists to ship a truckload of freight!

DE: The jobs created by bike lanes are the ones that involve widening the roadways to accommodate them. And possibly demolishing/modifying buildings to account for the eminent domain seizures of the extra 20 feet.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:14 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Serienya wrote:
New freight method: bike transport. ;)

This was my thought. Think of how many more jobs will be created via bike transport! You'll need hundreds of bicyclists to ship a truckload of freight!

DE: The jobs created by bike lanes are the ones that involve widening the roadways to accommodate them. And possibly demolishing/modifying buildings to account for the eminent domain seizures of the extra 20 feet.


You mean.. the same jobs that accompany normal road construction?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:30 pm 
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For a moment I thought this was an article from the UK...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Do we still make bicycles in this country?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Do we still make bicycles in this country?

That's an interesting question. At least several of the major brands are American companies, but I have no idea where they do their production these days.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Do we still make bicycles in this country?

That's an interesting question. At least several of the major brands are American companies, but I have no idea where they do their production these days.


Reading the wiki on Huffy, it states that the last three major manufactures have stopped production in the US.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:51 pm 
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A) What the hell is a "sea change"?

B) Has this guy ever even set foot in a western state?

I'm trying to imagine how he thinks this could ever possibly work in a metroplex like Dallas. In August.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:42 am 
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Stathol wrote:
A) What the hell is a "sea change"?

B) Has this guy ever even set foot in a western state?

I'm trying to imagine how he thinks this could ever possibly work in a metroplex like Dallas. In August.


"THE WHOLE OF THE UNIVERSE SHALL CONFORM TO MY NARROW AND UNWORKABLE WORLD VIEW! I AM EDUCATED WELL BEYOND THE LIMITS OF MY INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY!" pretty much sums up my opinion of Ray LaHood.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:13 am 
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Sea change:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_change

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?gwp ... a%20change

Not an unheard of phrase, though as far as I can recall I only first heard it a few years ago.

In any case, this does seem kind of like toothless politics to me. Perhaps "encouraging" means more than it sounds like, but I don't see much bad that can come out of it.

I don't see much good, either. Speaking from a local perspective, it's outright laughable. It takes me over 10 minutes by car to buy a loaf of bread, or ~8 to go to a single, very overpriced gas pump at a mechanic's shop. My town doesn't even have sidewalks, let alone bike lanes. No amount of encouraging is going to make anything happen bicyclewise.

I also haven't seen a lot of towns that are suitable for bicycling to be particularly against helping them, but I will admit this anecdote doesn't carry much weight.

My inclination is to believe that this is largely for political points and will have little of any impact on actual construction projects. It sounds good to the pro-biking folks, but I just can't see an "equal" amount of actual projects in the slightest.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:30 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Do we still make bicycles in this country?

If by "we" you mean "you and me," then no. Plenty of big names make bikes here in the U.S. though. Huffy and other Walmart-type brands though you can expect to be made overseas.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:04 am 
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Noggel wrote:
It takes me over 10 minutes by car to buy a loaf of bread, or ~8 to go to a single, very overpriced gas pump at a mechanic's shop. My town doesn't even have sidewalks, let alone bike lanes.


True, but if the government hadn't built all those roads and designed them for use by cars, fewer people would choose to live 10 minutes away from the nearest store. Sprawl is almost entirely the result of government policies subsidizing car-based travel.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:05 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Sprawl is almost entirely the result of government policies subsidizing car-based travel.
No, just another example of your confirmation bias with regard to liberal positions. Sprawl is almost entirely the result of inner city degradation.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:09 am 
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Khross wrote:
Sprawl is almost entirely the result of inner city degradation.

^this

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:31 am 
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I fully support this endeavor. Limiting access to bikes and pedestrians is a bad idea. Equal access does not mean, in any way, equal funding. The argument that this will hurt business is silly. When you design a road, you design for your traffic volume. You figure out your vehicle, bicycle, and pedestrian volumes, and design for each. That doesn't mean you provide the same volume or same area, or same funding for each, that's just dumb. What it will do is increase right-of-ways, and bridge widths, etc. It will make road projects more expensive, but this will pay off in that it will serve to reduce vehicle volumes, and assist in the cost effectiveness of public transportation.

In fact, they've found in most urban areas, designing to accomodate bikes and pedestrians INCREASES business (commerical/retail) along the route, since there's now many people that don't have to first find a parking spot to shop at your store.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:34 am 
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Khross wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Sprawl is almost entirely the result of government policies subsidizing car-based travel.
No, just another example of your confirmation bias with regard to liberal positions. Sprawl is almost entirely the result of inner city degradation.


Can you back up that claim with facts?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:34 am 
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Khross wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Sprawl is almost entirely the result of government policies subsidizing car-based travel.
No, just another example of your confirmation bias with regard to liberal positions. Sprawl is almost entirely the result of inner city degradation.


It's a combination. It's also caused by poor land management by *gasp* government. Those areas that have highly controlled development tend to have less sprawl (if that's a goal of the control). The merits of the government controlling development, well, that's another topic.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:35 am 
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Screeling wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Do we still make bicycles in this country?

If by "we" you mean "you and me," then no. Plenty of big names make bikes here in the U.S. though. Huffy and other Walmart-type brands though you can expect to be made overseas.

Actually, I followed up on Taskiss's stuff, and it looks like Trek is almost all made in Taiwan now (and thus, I assume, by extension so is Gary Fisher) -- the only exception is the super-high-end stuff that's still made in Wisconsin; Cannondale might still have some Canadian manufacturing but their presence in Connecticut is still entirely administrative; Specialized appears to have shut down their American plants in favor of their European ones; Schwinn got bought out by an Asian manufacturer and had all their American operations closed; and I was surprised to see that Giant wasn't even American to begin with.

I admit, I might've missed somebody that's got a large road/children's bike presence as I don't follow those as closely, but that's pretty much all the American brands I know of.

As for the policy, I find some of the notions somewhat silly, but not all. As Arathain said, there are certainly some ways that it makes sense, but others that specifically got called out sound like they'll be a big waste of money. Providing snowplowing for sidewalks? Yeah, 'cause that's going to make me want to bike around town here in suburban Ohio. Pedestrian traffic in urban areas, I can see, but I'd have assumed places like Chicago and NYC already spent public funding on clearing sidewalks instead of leaving it to the responsibility of individuals to clear their own.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:49 am 
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There are a lot of benefits to having a mixed use transportation corridor. It reduces vehicle congestion, encourages exercise, increases retail (walk off the street) business, discourages sprawl, increases the effectiveness of public transportation hubs, cuts down on smog, reduces gas consumption, reduces overall impervious area (reduction in parking) which improves water quality in streams and rivers and reduces the "heat island" effect, and generally increases the quality of life for local residents.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:50 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Khross wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Sprawl is almost entirely the result of government policies subsidizing car-based travel.
No, just another example of your confirmation bias with regard to liberal positions. Sprawl is almost entirely the result of inner city degradation.


It's a combination. It's also caused by poor land management by *gasp* government. Those areas that have highly controlled development tend to have less sprawl (if that's a goal of the control). The merits of the government controlling development, well, that's another topic.


Bingo. Inner city degradation and government-sponsored sprawl went hand-in-hand. Government zoning ordinances, highway construction, homeowner tax deductions, etc. all combined to encourage and perpetuate suburban sprawl. With government money and middle-class families migrating outward, the inner cities became more and more destitute, encouraging more outward migration and thus more government spending on roads, etc. These were mutually reinforcing phenomena.

And this analysis doesn't reflect "liberal" bias. On the contrary, it's actually a libertarian critique that points out the ways in which government regulations and subsidies, despite ostensibly reflecting majority preferences, end up shaping those preferences, distorting markets, and causing negative unintended side effects.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:55 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Inner city degradation and government-sponsored sprawl went hand-in-hand.

I'm more inclined to believe degradation encouraged suburban migration.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:56 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Bingo. Inner city degradation and government-sponsored sprawl went hand-in-hand. Government zoning ordinances, highway construction, homeowner tax deductions, etc. all combined to encourage and perpetuate suburban sprawl.


Not quite. A lack of highly restrictive zoning ordinances encourages sprawl, as it leaves each lot owner to do what he wants with his property. A business here, a business there, etc. I'm not suggesting there are any pro-sprawl zoning restrictions.


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