The Glade 4.0

Link? I am highly skeptical of that claim.

Question #14:
The quality of health care you receive

LOL. So Very Satisfied = Somewhat Satisfied. Riiiiight.

I'll buy 52% which is the real number there, not this ficticious 89%.

And that data is from 2006. Healthcare has gone downhill a lot since then IMHO.

They were given the choice between satisfied and unsatisfied. It's OK though, you can believe what you want, I don't mind.

It should be noted that question is also only for those with coverage. One of the primary goals of this bill was to expand coverage to those without it, who aren't covered by that question.

Wait. I just reread the poll. Actually that section you quoted is even less relevant. It talks about the quality of care they receive. What I take from that is if/when they go to the doctor, does the doctor do a good job. That really is a separate (although related) issue to are they statisfied with the healthcare system as a whole.

According to polls, 89 percent of Americans were satisfied with their own personal medical care prior to the passage of this bill.

Do you honestly think that health care that will accomplish less and cost more than promised is a significant improvement, given that fact?

Ok, I see where our confusion is, we're talking about 2 things here.

RD's comments I believe were about healthcare as a whole. That is the effectiveness of the overall system.

You're talking about individuals experiences with their own doctors.

Apples and Oranges.

The quality of health care you receive
Your health care costs, including both expenses not covered by insurance, and the cost of your insurance, if any
Your ability to get a doctor's appointment when you want one
Your ability to see top-quality medical specialists, if you ever need one
Your ability to get the latest, most sophisticated medical treatments
The quality of communication with your doctor
Your ability to get emergency medical care
Your ability to get non-emergency medical treatments without having to wait

Probably a mix of the two. I recall seeing a stat somewhere that about 70% of corporate taxes get passed through to consumers, with the rest being absorbed by the companies themselves, but I'd have to look it up to confirm. All that aside, as I said to Xeq in another thread, the point of removing the tax subsidy is to encourage businesses to drop their group insurance plans entirely (since there's no longer a tax benefit to keeping them), and just pay their employees in wages rather than benefits. If it works as planned, fewer and fewer companies will end up paying this tax at all down the road.

All expenses and taxes are eventually paid by the working-to-middle-class consumers and taxpayers.

All of them.

All expenses and taxes are eventually paid by the working-to-middle-class consumers and taxpayers.

All of them.

Don't mean to single you out, Taly, but this conception of the economy as frictionless and instantaneously redistributive is a pet peeve of mine. It's just not the way things work.

[...] this conception of the economy as frictionless and instantaneously redistributive is a pet peeve of mine. It's just not the way things work. If it was, then no one should care how and when the government spends money anyway, since it would all just trickle through to every other part of the economy anyway. Hell, why not just have the feds cut me a check for $1 trillion and sit back while I spread it around via my purchases.

Fair enough, but still, if you think all government expenses and taxes eventually make their way to regular consumers and taxpayers, why do you have any policy preferences at all? Why does it matter how much the government taxes and spends or who it targets those taxes and expenditures on? If it all eventually filters throughout the economy anyway, it shouldn't matter whether the government has a 0% tax rate or a 100% tax rate, whether it taxes wages, capital gains, or consumption, whether it spends money on agricultural subsidies or education, etc.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Taskiss:

You're a White Christian Male. Obviously, the bulk of your labor must be diverted to rewarding those people you oppressed in a former life.

But what if he was one of the oppressed people in the former life and now its his turn to do the oppressing?

In a previous life, I was Müs's *****.

It's PAYBACK time! He's going DOWN!

Its true. In a former life, I was Lawrence of Arabia, and Taskiss was my trusty steed, "Evil Smelling Son of a *****"

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Wow, you guys fail at reading comprehension today ... I think.

You hear that? He called me a trusty steed. He think I'm a steed!