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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:37 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Thats "Stalker-Man, Sir" to you.

No, boy fits.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Since I hadn't really gone through this yet:

(1) There was no personal attacks there--not even against Jesus, were he a poster on this board. (Beryllin doesn't count as Jesus.) There is no glade rule against "blasphemy." There is no glade rule against off-color or "tasteless" jokes in General. There's no glade rule about respecting religion. Frankly, if I were inclined to make such rules for people, I'd be in favor of rules against respecting religion--I consider it nothing but dangerous claptrap that brings out the worst humanity has to offer in everyone who follows it. I pity the religious. I bring a little irreverance into any religious discussion I can because they need it. I said at the time this was the tactful entry. My normal comments about Jesus-freak crap are a hundred times more irreverent (eg. "the original ****"), but I save them for those who might appreciate them. Personally, I find religion in general offensive and indecent, but I don't go around calling you all out on it.

(2) The hypocrisy here is that so many of the ones complaining are also the ones who rail against the "politically correct" movement. The core of the politcally correct movement is a desire not to offend anyone. And of course, that's bullshit. Any given comment is going to be offensive to someone. If you live in society, you learn to live with such offenses. As John Cleese so aptly put it at Graham Chapman's funeral, "anything for him but mindless good taste." I firmly believe that...the appeal of comedians such as Carlin, or the Monty Python troup was specifically that: irreverance and a willingness to say what others will object to. Nothing I said in that thread can match up to the irreverance of religious comedies such as Dogma or The Life of Brian. I consider a willingness to do or say the "inappropriate" in situations or conversations others consider sacred to be a good thing. I despise the PC-movement. I despise the concept of being respectful and reverent of a concept just because someone's social mores expect me to be. Nevertheless, I gave you this one and only concession to "good taste" as you call it: I intentionally waited until after Easter was well finished to post it, despite having the comment burning a giggling hole in me for a couple days.

(3) Neither as a moderator, or as a poster is it my job to ensure you are not offended. In fact, I don't give a **** whether you are offended. In general, I don't care whether I "give offense," because offense is never given. Offense is always created by the one who is offended--it is their choice whether or not to take offense. I am not going to limit my opinions stated in #2 just because a few of you are too childish to not fly off the handle. In fact, the very reaction I got from posting that affirmed I was on the right track in posting it. (If nobody batted an eyelash at such things, a lot of comedians would be out of work. The concept behind Literary Burlesque is really at the heart of all jokes.) If you don't like it, tough. Report it, see if it's against the rules. The irony of a bunch of people screaming and throwing temper tantrums because they consider a harmless joke "childish" is delicious in and of itself. If you're going to get offended and hurt by something so simple, you're going to get offended and hurt a lot more in life than by anything I will ever say.

YMMV. I don't really care..


Popping into threads and stringing together inappropriate words isn't "irreverent" (BTW that's the way it's spelled), it's internet Tourette Syndrom, and it's appropriately called trolling. You can call on the names of Cleese and Carlin, but they have wit and people voluntarily went to see their productions. The fact that you can't control yourself when it comes to religion means that the problem is yours. The fact that you think people need any input from you displays your arrogance.

In the future keep in mind that unless you find Beevis and Butthead the height of social commentary, jumping in and saying "Viagra, circumcised men hehehe, big stick hehehe, blood loss hehehe, impotence omnipotence hehehehe" does not a joke make.

In short, you're acting like an arrogant little troll with delusions of grandeur.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:56 pm 
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I think everyone here has been guilty of trolling at some point or other. Accusations of trolling are meaningless. And furthermore not even against board rules.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:58 pm 
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No, it isn't, but, then again, I'm not a child who has to see a rule to know that something is wrong.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Such as calling people names or implying they have various social problems if you disagree with their sense of humor?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Yup, if that were the case.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:08 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Such as calling people names or implying they have various social problems if you disagree with their sense of humor?


Really? That's your retort?


Arguments over legitimate differences in sense of humor would be viable. That isn't the case. Instead, you've got a moderator who violates forum rules and gets a pass, as they all seem to lately. The place has gone to ****, and you're defending the hobos making the dung in the corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:12 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Instead, you've got a moderator who violates forum rules and gets a pass,


Really? What rules were violated? And if rules were violated, were said infractions reported?

I didn't see any violations...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:23 pm 
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I'm not defending anyone. I'm pointing out hypocracy.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Müs wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Instead, you've got a moderator who violates forum rules and gets a pass,


Really? What rules were violated? And if rules were violated, were said infractions reported?

I didn't see any violations...



Insulting people's religion is a direct violation of the rules, as pointed out by Kaffis several, several pages ago. It was done by Talya in the general forum, in the original thread, which is supposed to still be a moderated forum. My understanding is that TheRiov also did so, but I didn't see that comment and I'm not sifting through pages of dung to find it.

Furthermore, reports mean jack ****, especially when 1) a moderator is the one who violated the rules, 2) a moderator had already taken action on the original thread to issue a broad-based cooldown, and then moved the thread without comment, indicating that a moderator other than the instigator was aware of the violation, 3) warnings have been issued in the past for making reports, creating an extreme disincentive to report anything. After all, why report something when a moderator caused it the problem in the first place? They'll probably just warn you.

Defending that behavior is the equivalent of stating there should be no rules. In which case that's dandy, but let's remove all these moderators who have the power of banning people, since lately they've been some of the most serious offenders I've seen.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
No, it isn't, but, then again, I'm not a child who has to see a rule to know that something is wrong.


Shamelessly stolen from a PM: "Says the guy who needs a book written 2000 years ago to tell him right from wrong. I love irony."

You finding it offensive and not funny makes it all the better.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:26 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Insulting people's religion is a direct violation of the rules, as pointed out by Kaffis several, several pages ago. It was done by Talya in the general forum, in the original thread, which is supposed to still be a moderated forum. My understanding is that TheRiov also did so, but I didn't see that comment and I'm not sifting through pages of dung to find it.


Blasphemous jokes are not insulting people's religion. It may insult people, so can a lot of things that are not personal attacks.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:26 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
I'm not defending anyone. I'm pointing out hypocracy.


Well if you want to play that card, I'll just point out your stupidity. I mean, that isn't an insult right? It's just a joke, and just because you don't find it funny doesn't mean it isn't.

The rules specifically state insulting people based upon religion isn't allowed, as pointed out many, many pages ago by Kaffis.

Just because you're too stupid or too biased to recognize that it happened (perhaps because you're one of the alleged original offenders?) doesn't mean it didn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Talya wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Insulting people's religion is a direct violation of the rules, as pointed out by Kaffis several, several pages ago. It was done by Talya in the general forum, in the original thread, which is supposed to still be a moderated forum. My understanding is that TheRiov also did so, but I didn't see that comment and I'm not sifting through pages of dung to find it.


Blasphemous jokes are not insulting people's religion. It may insult people, so can a lot of things that are not personal attacks.


You wrote the rules, you'd think you'd know how to follow them.

Flaming based on religion, having different views than yourself, or flamebaiting is against the rules, explicitly.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Quote:
insulting people based upon religion isn't allowed,


True. This is not what happened though. Noone was insulted directly. No rules were broken.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Quote:
insulting people based upon religion isn't allowed,


True. This is not what happened though. Noone was insulted directly. No rules were broken.


Passive aggressive insults are explicitly forbidden.

Making fun of the entire religion by insulting their savior would certainly count.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:31 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
You wrote the rules, you'd think you'd know how to follow them.


I wrote the rules. You'd think you'd know you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Arrogant. Troll.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Arrogant. Troll.


Oversensitive. Self-important. Arsehole.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:36 pm 
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I insulted no one's religion. I stated that asking young children to swear allegiance to a particular religious doctrine -- ANY doctrine was tantamount to brainwashing, because I believe that children are not capable of making such complex decisions. I fully support educating children, (and stated so in my posts) but asking them to make a choice is another story.

Think of it this way:

Which is better?
Lets try a less vitrol-provoking argument.

If you could use pavlovian conditioning to get someone to not steal by giving them electric shocks everytime they thought about doing so, vs teaching someone a moral code where they chose not to steal-- which is better?

The effect is the same, but the reason matters.

The Christian argument here is that God granted free will, so that Man can CHOOSE to obey. I find some techniques of teaching children to be bordering on brainwashing (My daughter does NOT need to learn songs at age 2 called "Everybody aught to go to Sunday School") In which case you've robbed them of free will.


This is A Clockwork Orange all over again. Right and Wrong are CHOICES. Will we stray from them from time to time? Sure. But Dystopia is founded on removal of choice in the name of doing what is 'best' for the society as a whole. If you took away man's capacity for Sin, then what is left?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:37 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Müs wrote:
Quote:
insulting people based upon religion isn't allowed,


True. This is not what happened though. Noone was insulted directly. No rules were broken.


Passive aggressive insults are explicitly forbidden.

Making fun of the entire religion by insulting their savior would certainly count.


No... no it really doesn't.

"Anyone that would follow that Jesus guy is a sheep" <-- Passive aggressive insult. (Against the rules)

"LOL Jesus needs Viagra LOL Blood Loss" <-- Inconsiderate douchebaggy comment. (Not against the rules)

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:37 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Müs wrote:
Quote:
insulting people based upon religion isn't allowed,


True. This is not what happened though. Noone was insulted directly. No rules were broken.


Passive aggressive insults are explicitly forbidden.

Making fun of the entire religion by insulting their savior would certainly count.


So you favor the Fatwah's on those who have blasphemous depictions of Mohammed?
Thats the next logical conclusion isnt it?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:38 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Arrogant. Troll.


Oversensitive. Self-important. Arsehole.


Nah, what I posted describes you quite well, no additional adjectives are needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:38 pm 
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Talya wrote:
DFK! wrote:
You wrote the rules, you'd think you'd know how to follow them.


I wrote the rules. You'd think you'd know you don't know what the **** you're talking about.


Perhaps you shouldn't have put in the explicit rules about insulting people based on religion, then. Or having different viewpoints than yourself. About passive-aggressive insults, or about the spirit of the rules rather than the letter of them.

You have personally **** on a huge contingent of the forum, and you're a moderator. You're supposed to be leading and putting forth a solid example. Instead, you're demeaning the atmosphere of the entire message board. Now you're trying to tell us we're all retarded because we didn't get your genius humor.

Wrong.

I'm not even religious and I thought it was in poor taste. It's easy to see how those who are religious or devout Christians would take personal offense, a flame. Anti-flaming rules exist to prevent exactly that type of offense, or to provide corrective action in the face of such offenses. Instead, you and TheRiov and Mus are trying to tell everybody else they just didn't get the joke? Horseshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:40 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Müs wrote:
True. This is not what happened though. Noone was insulted directly. No rules were broken.


Passive aggressive insults are explicitly forbidden.

Making fun of the entire religion by insulting their savior would certainly count.


So you favor the Fatwah's on those who have blasphemous depictions of Mohammed?
Thats the next logical conclusion isnt it?


If you fail wholly at critical thinking, sure.

This is a closed community with rules. Those rules are explicit in regards to flaming posters here. If we had a Muslim on the forum and he made a thread about... I dunno, some Islamic holiday and you came into the thread going "durka durka ****." I'd consider that a flame too, and would advocate you be warned.

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