The Glade 4.0

So, my 17-year old niece has recently started attending, on her own, a church that I consider to be excessively fundamentalist in its theological teachings: e.g. the Bible is 100% literal truth, homosexuality is a sin, sex before marriage is a sin, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is the only way into Heaven and all other religions will land you in Hell no matter how kind a person you are, etc. I know several people here have similar beliefs, so let me say in advance that I mean no disrespect to you, but I do disagree and I want to discourage my niece from adopting such beliefs as her own.

On the other hand, my niece has gone through some rough times in recent years (her parents divorced, her mom spent a couple of years in and out of rehab for addiction to prescription meds, and so on). And, as much as I disagree with their religious beliefs, most of the people I've known from similar churches tend to be very kind and supportive, so it's probably good for her in some ways to have that in her life. Also, I don't want to be pushy or rude with regard to something that's ultimately her own choice.

So, I'm trying to figure out how to nudge her away from the beliefs this church espouses, while at the same time respecting her emotional needs and intellectual self-determination. Any advice on how to approach it?

Honestly, stay out of it would be the best approach, unless she decides to engage you in discussions about religion. At least then, she is seeking input and other views and will be more open to discussing them, usually.

Tell her about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

/nod

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Holy shitsnacks!

Thats a touchy subject there, buddy, and a difficult situation. I understand where you are coming from and I feel for you.
On the one hand, she is so young and impressionable that she could easily be mislead and taken advantage of. At her age she lacks the logical reasoning to question authority and glean the good from the bad in organized religion.
But, these types of churches generally do produce well-behaved and productive members of society who tend to more or less stay out of trouble...in other words, there is a lot of reasons to keep her in this church. Teens and early adults are motivated by emotions more than logic and that does not even out until the mid to late twenties depending on gender, so having her involved in a highly emotional church as opposed to a highly emotional street/friends/opposite-sex life could be a good thing even if it comes down to the lesser of two evils.
If it were me, I would allow her to attend the church but talk about it frequently, attend with her once a month and try to get her to attend with you somewhere a little less fundamental once a month. You know, just kind of be there for her to balance it out and check it out with her every now and then to help prevent her from getting too carried away.
Good luck with this, and your niece is a lucky girl to have such a concerned and involved uncle.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Go find a church that is accepting, loving and generally a warm community. Take her with you to it.

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Leave her alone. Believe what you want to believe, let her believe what she wants.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Unless you have something better to offer her, I'd recommend you leave her alone. You're inserting your own preconceived notions of what those people are like and assuming she will become just like them.

Kids do need guidance. Believe me, I know this especially right now. But this is a recovery step for her. She may feel like the Spirit of God is leading her and she could go on to be one of the biggest humanitarians your town has ever seen. She could also end up protesting dead homosexuals. Based on what you know about her already, which way is she likely to go? If she hasn't shown any tendencies toward being extremist, I wouldn't sweat it.

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The Dude abides.

This.

You should be very careful with this since, as I'm sure you realize, uninvited attempts to engage her on this subject (especially if it comes off as an attempt to sever her relationship/involvement with this organization) could easily be seen as an 'attack' on her and result in damage to your relationship.

People need to make their own choices. I don't want people cramming their religious beliefs down my throat, and I'm not going to cram my lack of belief down theirs.

And really, trying out different churches is a hell of a lot better than some of the crap she could be out there doing. I've got a list of people I went to high school with that died due to drinking and drugs. I think 50% of the girls in my graduating class either had kids before they graduated, or within a year of graduation.

If she comes to you with questions, be smart about it. Don't shove your beliefs down her throat. She's looking for answers, and she's 17. For all you know she'll look to Zen, Buddahism, or any one of a number of places over the next weeks, months, or more. When you're looking for answers to why **** happens, especially the kind of **** she has been through, it's not an easy road.

You try pushing her away, and all you are going to do is push her closer to it.

I've experimented with religions, it's not my cup of tea. But people are entitled to their own beliefs, and all you're trying to do is push your own on her. It'd be like Elmo forcing you at gunpoint to adopt his way of thinking or die.

Definitely stay out of it. She's 17, she's basically an adult. If she asks you your opinion, give it. Short of that, mind your business IMO.

It's a private matter.

Yeah, my initial inclination was to just stay the heck out of it. The thing is, though, the church community doesn't do that. For instance, anytime she posts a classic teenager's "life sucks!" Facebook status, a bunch of her church friends and their parents respond with heavy-handed (by my family's standards) religious commentary. If it was just her peers, that'd be one thing, but when 45-year old women are involving themselves and throwing out lines that, honestly, kinda creep me out, I find that problematic.

At the moment, the only active religious guidance she's receiving (as opposed to passive guidance by example) is from them. Seems like a mistake to completely yield the floor to non-family members with whom I and the rest of my family disagree, you know? I mean, if you guys knew that one of your kids or nieces/nephews was wavering in their Christian faith and being actively encouraged by other adults to convert to something else, wouldn't you be inclined to at least discuss the subject with them?

I don't know, at the end of the day, I guess it's true she's not going to go the "protesting dead homosexuals" route. *chuckle* She's too smart and kind-hearted for that, and I know she argues against the anti-gay positions of her chuchmates anyway. And y'all are right that pressure, in addition to being wrong on its own merits, is likely to backfire. I don't want to push her so much as make sure she gets exposed to more options. Just trying to figure out how to do that. I really like the idea of attending another church with her, but since I'm in NYC and she's in VT, that's not really an option. And she's 17, so book suggestions aren't likely to work! Guess I'll just feel my through and discuss things as they come up. *sigh* Mostly wanted to vent, I suppose.

Well, talk to her about what other churches she's attended, and if she seems interested try getting up there once a month and go to some other churches with her. Distance makes it harder, but it could be worth a shot. And with a family member showing interest, it could be what she needs to find what she's looking for...

RangerDave:

Re-read your first post and ask yourself if you're really any different from the Church that has you upset.

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Aside from your own personal disagreement, what actions has she displayed that have been cause for concern?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I have to go with the popular let her make her own choices.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Nothing, really. She's just started using buzz words and catch-phrases that suggest she's beginning to internalize the culture of the church. I'm not freaking out about it or anything; just want to make sure she doesn't get sucked in too deep before she's mature and experienced enough to make an informed decision.

I get the same concerns when I see people start using the words "tea baggers", "right wing" and "racist".

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about giving her religious advice. Internet security and privacy advice, though, you may want to cover.

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Ok, now it is time for an intervention! She's hooked on teh Facebook!

Again, she's pretty much an adult. Do you realize you are stating that you want to control what information she receives, or more specifically, control the balance of the information? My knowledge of facebook leads me to believe that if she wanted less of their input, she can adjust her settings accordingly.

Furthermore, it seems you are perusing her facebook page to determine what information she is receiving, and then looking at adjusting your relationship with her to influence the information she receives and how she thinks. That's pretty creepy, man.

She's choosing to invite these people into her life. While she's technically a minor, 17 is definitely old enough to be making one's own faith decisions. It's much too late for you to start getting involved in how she forms these beliefs unless you've been deeply involved in those aspects of her life already.

Maybe she wants heavy handed commentart from 45 year old women. It sounds like you're basically afraid she might start believing things you don't like. That happens sometimes.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Again, re-read your first post and this post and realize that you are behaving in precisely the manner to which you're objecting.

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From my perspective, there's only one way to handle this situation.

Talk with her.

Treat her like an adult, and be clear and honest with your feelings. If it were me, I'd be sure to let her know that I didn't approve of the message she was getting from this church and the specifics of why. Ask her what it is that's drawing her to the church (maybe that's something that's lacking from the family support structure). See what her responses are, and based on those suggest alternate options she might pursue. But in the end, let her know that it's her choice in what she believes or what she does.

What would people be saying if it were 17 years ago and she was trying to become a Branch Davidian?

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Don't trust Reno.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."