The Glade 4.0

Diamondeye:

Except, Arathain's late to the party and didn't read the entire thread. I made my point; I've made the same point several times before, and likely to the same end.

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Just reading the past few pages now, who knew a thread with the title "Facebook" in it was about the civil war and phenomenology? Not this guy.

Anyway it was going pretty well actually. Khross made his point about what I'm going to call indoctrination for lack of a simpler term. Aizle said ok fine then why didnt you succumb to this? Khross said he did, leading to the obvious question: Well what changed? Then **** met fan for some reason.

I'd be interested to hear why Lincoln was such a prick too, although not if it's going to be laid out in a 4 volume set of leather bound books reproduced in this thread. I know the suspension of Habeus Corpus and those sorts of things, but suffice to say I remain sympathetic.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I'm not getting into that. I'm just pointing out that if he's claiming you didn't make a point, it's rather silly to cricticize his argument by pointing out that you didn't make a point, the accuracy of the assertion that you didn't make one notwithstanding.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Diamondeye:

I think you misread Shuyung's post then.

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I pointed out that I might be misreading it when I made the initial statement. I don't think his post is worded terribly well.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Then answer my question. Why is it if we all lack control on our identity, that is both you and I have the same lack of control, that you now dispise Lincoln, and I think he was a pretty decent president? Is it just that you happened to stumble into other Lincoln haters?

I'll take up your progressive/regressive theory after you answer my question.

Aizle:

I read history books, including those that aren't kosher according to mainstream pedagogy? I read books written by people outside of the American cultural and socio-historical milieu? Lots of reasons why I have different opinions; lots of reasons why I hold to facts not supported by American mythology; none of which, however, change the deep seated desire for the Cherry Tree to be a reality; the 3 pennies to actually have happened; or Thomas Jefferson not to have had an ongoing affair with a slave girl.

But that's neither here nor there, as you continue to demonstrate the point I made before: even your vaunted adherence to individualism is a product of social conditioning. The notion that you think I must be special or unique or think myself outside the system belies that particular social value in your world view. And that reality opens up a whole other can of worms involving American Exceptionalism.

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I actually specifically DON'T think that you're special or unique. I don't think most people are special or unique. However, you were presenting your questions in such a manner that lead one to believe that in fact you thought you were, because I was still misguided, but somehow you had had your eyes opened. Had you actually answered my question as to how your opinion changed, we could have cleared that up pages ago. It should be noted, it is my opinion that people by and large aren't unique so that is probably why I took offense to your comments. You have a tendency to come off as superior and condescending in your posts, and that regularly touches a nerve.

I will be the first to admit that I've never been a big fan of history. I usually find it boring. That said, I do make a point of trying to get information from a variety of sources, some of those outside of the whatever mainstream source. Additionally, I don't (as many here do) hold up our founding fathers and presidents up as some set of gods to be worshiped and fauned over. They were men, imperfect and flawed as each of us are. Some of them were terrible people, some of them were good people. Most of them were trying to do what they thought was right given the options they had for them at the time. All that said, I do like to get other peoples viewpoints on history as it helps me have a balanced view.

Of course you want to believe in the Cherry Tree, and all the other stories about the founding of our country. Those stories were specifically designed to be inspiring. I'm actually reminded of a couple of quotes. The first is from the movie Secondhand Lions.



The second is from the forward of The White Stag, a childrens book about the legend of the founding of Hungary by Kate Seredy.



But as we both know the reality of things is often different.

What is most unfortunate is that you seem to be reticent to share the "lots of reasons", and more specifically that everyone here is similarly reticent. It is understandable, however. The norm is that we **** on everyone's reasons for being different, for having a different world view. I'm as guilty of it as the next guy, although I am trying to be more concious about it. But in the end, it's only by both sharing and trying to understand the "lots of reasons" that we will ever break out of our myopic viewpoints.

Aizle:

Let's try this differently. What is your native language?

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English.

Aizle:

Ok, next question. How did you learn to speak English?

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Combination of my parents/family, public schools, interaction with friends/strangers and reading.

If you're trying to prove that we are a product of our surrounding, I don't disagree. However, I also believe that it's possible to expand ones horizons beyond one's immediate surroundings.

I'll just ask that you don't get ahead of me, because what I'm trying to demonstrate is a bit more complex than that.Science indicates otherwise. Language is learned through osmosis and all the fundamental rules and modulations for a language are internalized by the age of 4. In fact, you more than likely learned more about English from your parents (and any other person in earshot) speaking in the 9-12 months after your birth than you did in any other period of your life. Incidentally, this is why "grammar", such that it is, is so difficult for people who come from non-WASP backgrounds. Since no one actually speaks American Edited English (the dialect appropriate for most written discourse) with an Atlantic Broadcast accent (the "accent" neutral ideal), the rules/procedures/formulations for language that do get internalized through simple proximity osmosis override and chafe against the things we're "taught" later.

For example, which has a more regular and complete verb procedure:

"Standard" English or "Ebonics"?

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I don't know, although since you are asking the question, I'm going to assume "Ebonics" because it's not the one most people would think of.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Not a bit. Did I ask you a bunch of questions before I even stated my point? Nope. So you're wrong. When you guys didn't get my point, did I clarify? Yep, so you're wrong.

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Honestly, I'm not following the exchange between A and K well enough to determine whether he made any points or not, or whether an additional point was asked by A. I do know that asking a bunch of questions without answering those posed is **** obnoxious. I also know, and this is directed at the post I quoted, that asking questions to ascertain the knowledge of a poster on a message board prior to making your statements is **** obnoxious. Moreover, asking a bunch of questions so you can find out what "intellectual level" your explanation should be targeted toward is the definition of condescension - which, if I recall, was specifically denied by Khross. Furthermore, I know that questions posed can make a person think about their position, and perhaps make your point that way, but since we are not students, that's once again, **** obnoxious.

That's all I was getting at.

Oh, this is absolutely the case, and I don't doubt you made several points. My response to him was intended in a more general context. I see that a lot on this board - people don't seem to want to state their case, and many don't seem willing to clarify.

You indeed misread it.

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If you had even the slightest knowledge of linguistics then you would know that all languages are equally complex.

Man, aren't you just full of ****.

"You have to speak to your reader/listener's level. But don't ask questions to ascertain their knowledge level, 'cause then you're a dick."

Furthermore, you didn't clarify, you basically just kept shitting on everyone for not understanding you or for being wrong. Just because you want to re-write board history doesn't mean I'm going to go along with it. You regularly berate anyone who doesn't lower the intelligence of their dialogue to the lowest common denominator (a truly stupid theory, by the way), yet fail to hold yourself to the same standard. It's blatant hypocrisy.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

And if I ended that joke with "Dear God, i just wanted to let you know that !@#$%^&*()_+! is my favorite poster" what would your reaction be?

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

That the profantiy filter had gone haywire.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Then why do you come down from the mountaintop to give fire to the mortals? Don't you know your innards are in danger?

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn