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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:29 pm 
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http://www.wzzm13.com/video/default.aspx?maven_playerId=articleplayer_news&maven_referralPlaylistId=playlist&maven_referralObject=1275865950

Short story is a woman has two boys, and two of the boy's friends wait at her house for 20 minutes for the bus to pick them up (as the other parents have to go to work earlier) and she puts them all on the bus. The Department of Human Services sent her a letter threatening her with $1000 fine or 90 days in jail for operating an unlicensed daycare.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Wow. That's some bullshit right there.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Hung by the neck until dead.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:26 pm 
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I hope to hell that this gets resolved with no ill to the people helping her friends.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 am 
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She'll have to pay for a defense attourney.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:57 am 
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Damn, guess I better not let my kids friends spend the night any more.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:38 am 
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Yeah I better stop letting kids sleep over my apartment.

I'll use my van from now on.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:15 am 
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I suspect there is more to this story than we have visibility to.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:34 am 
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Aizle wrote:
I suspect there is more to this story than we have visibility to.


After watching the whole video, I seriously doubt it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:43 am 
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I doubt it too. Health & Human Services-type organizations tend to be populated by the type of people who care about social welfare. Since they tend to have some education in those areas, they tend to also think that they know the "right" way to do things like take care of children, and that it's their job to inflict that on everyone else. I can just hear some nitwit carrying at their HQ in this city about "OMG, what if there was a problem? That woman didn't have training! That's just not acceptable!"

These sorts of people annoy the **** out of cops because they are so frequently telling us to arrest someone for... well for something that's not against the law. They like to insist they know the law on these areas but usually they don't. Then you have to make them tell you the statute so you can dig it out and confirm it for yourself, because it's a better than 50/50 that whatever the HHS person is bellyaching about isn't a crime.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:14 am 
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Let me clarify my comment.

I completely agree that it's a bogus charge. However, contrary to popular opinion around here, most government agencies like H&HS don't go trolling the streets of suburbia looking for illegal daycares.

So the question is why did this show up on their radar? I suspect that one of her neighbors complained about the noise or something similar and claimed that she was taking care of multiple kids.

That said, shame on the dept for not doing their homework first before sending out a nasty-gram.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:21 am 
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Pretty sure this will get properly worked out, and that we don't have all the details.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:24 am 
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Aizle wrote:
So the question is why did this show up on their radar? I suspect that one of her neighbors complained about the noise or something similar and claimed that she was taking care of multiple kids.


Less likely to be the neighbors and more likely to be the school or bus driver, for the exact reasons DE mentioned.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:38 am 
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It's for the children! Seriously though I cant even imagine this. It's just absurd.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8277378.stm

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England's Children's Minister wants a review of the case of two police officers told they were breaking the law, caring for each other's children.

Ofsted said the arrangement contravened the Childcare Act because it lasted for longer than two hours a day, and constituted receiving "a reward".

It said the women would have to be registered as childminders.


Minister Vernon Coaker said his department was talking to Ofsted about this particular case.

The two detective constables, Leanne Shepherd, from Milton Keynes, and Lucy Jarrett, from Buckingham, told the BBC how Ofsted insisted they end their arrangement.

'Shocked'

Ms Shepherd, who serves with Thames Valley Police, recalled: "A lady came to the front door and she identified herself as being from Ofsted. She said a complaint had been made that I was illegally childminding.

"I was just shocked - I thought they were a bit confused about the arrangement between us.

"So I invited her in and told her situation - the arrangement between Lucy and I - and I was shocked when she told me I was breaking the law."

Ms Jarrett added: "Our children were never in any harm, they were never in any danger.

"To think that they would waste their time and effort on innocent people who are trying to provide for their families by returning to the workplace... Surely their time and effort would be better placed elsewhere."

Thames Valley Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, said the pair had its "full support".

Secretary Anday Viney said: "Both of them are experienced professional officers.

"They just want to return to work after having children and have found that the system is working totally against them.

"They've been threatened with prosecution by Ofsted if they continue doing this."

An Ofsted spokesman said it applied regulations found in the Childcare Act 2006, but was currently discussing the interpretation of the word "reward" with the department for Children, Schools and Families (DCSF).

"Reward is not just a case of money changing hands. The supply of services or goods and, in some circumstances, reciprocal arrangements can also constitute reward.

"Generally, mothers who look after each other's children are not providing childminding for which registration is required, as exemptions apply to them, for example because the care is for less than two hours or it takes place on less than 14 days in a year.

"Where such arrangements are regular and for longer periods, then registration is usually required."


Close relatives of children, such as grandparents, siblings, aunts or uncles, were exempt from the rules, he added.

Ofsted only operates in England, so this interpretation of the law on child care for "reward" applies to England rather than elsewhere in the UK.

Michelle Elliott, director of the children's charity Kidscape, told the BBC's Breakfast programme that the decision defied common sense and would impose extra childcare costs on families.

She added: "These children were looked after in a secure environment with people that they knew.

"There must be thousands of people out there who are doing the same thing who are now going to think: 'Do I have to spend £300 a week or whatever it is?'"

Minister for Children, Schools and Families Vernon Coaker insisted the Childcare Act 2006 was in place "to ensure the safety and wellbeing of all children" but the government needed to make sure it did not "penalise hard-working families".

"My department is speaking to Ofsted about the interpretation of the word 'reward' in this particular case," he said.

A petition to scrap the rules governing reciprocal child care on the Number 10 website had gathered more than 5,300 signatures by 0530 BST on Monday.

Anyone required to register to become a childminder would also have to undergo a criminal records check.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:08 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I doubt it too. Health & Human Services-type organizations tend to be populated by the type of people who care about social welfare.


Bah, no they aren't. They tend to be populated by women who never learned how to type and so can't make it as secretaries.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:13 am 
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shuyung wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I doubt it too. Health & Human Services-type organizations tend to be populated by the type of people who care about social welfare.


Bah, no they aren't. They tend to be populated by women who never learned how to type and so can't make it as secretaries.


Or women who were terribly abused when they were kids or are other-wise messed up in the head and have not gone to therapy and need the power trip and false sense of confidence that this kind of job provides, all the while never really changing anyone's lives for the better.
I have yet to hear a single happy story in real life or on the internet about DHS, social workers, etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:32 am 
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shuyung wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I doubt it too. Health & Human Services-type organizations tend to be populated by the type of people who care about social welfare.


Bah, no they aren't. They tend to be populated by women who never learned how to type and so can't make it as secretaries.


That too. Being a busybody that's overly concerned with social welfare isn't mutually exclusive to being unable to type or do secretarial work. In fact, they seem to go together well.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:36 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
shuyung wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I doubt it too. Health & Human Services-type organizations tend to be populated by the type of people who care about social welfare.


Bah, no they aren't. They tend to be populated by women who never learned how to type and so can't make it as secretaries.


That too. Being a busybody that's overly concerned with social welfare isn't mutually exclusive to being unable to type or do secretarial work. In fact, they seem to go together well.


Obviously all the sterotypes about cops, folks in the military, fire fighters, lawyers, etc. are all true all the time too.

Just saying that all this piling on isn't helpful.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:50 am 
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Aizle wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:

That too. Being a busybody that's overly concerned with social welfare isn't mutually exclusive to being unable to type or do secretarial work. In fact, they seem to go together well.


Obviously all the sterotypes about cops, folks in the military, fire fighters, lawyers, etc. are all true all the time too.

Just saying that all this piling on isn't helpful.


Given the regularity of absurd actions by HHS agencies, such as this one, and the dearth of positive stories, the stereotype is far more accurate than most others.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:54 am 
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In my opinion, DSS suffers from a few major flaws that generally undermines the good of the intent, and the seemingly rare actions, of the group.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:59 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Given the regularity of absurd actions by HHS agencies, such as this one, and the dearth of positive stories, the stereotype is far more accurate than most others.

Just a counter point, but most if not all DSS agencies are barred by law from discussing any information related to minors. Its highly unlikely any DSS agency would tout their "wins" in a new article, aside from general statistics by the head of the agency, leaving the majority of the press to parents who feel victimized calling the press, or where something "missed" by the agency results in a harm to a child.

Certainly not claiming the majority of the employees are fished from the cream in the barrel, but even for the good employees, its a damned if you do and damned if you don't proposition.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:05 pm 
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I know some highly educated folks in the field. Remember, this has to be one of the most miserable jobs ever. It would be very easy to become disheartened. I rank child services up there with working in a retirement home as the most crappy job ever.


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